I was debating with a lib who argued that Lenin was a murderer and kept talking about how 200,000 people died in the Red Terror. I responded by saying you could say the same thing about the founding fathers, after all, all those civilians wouldn't have died if some rich landowners just payed their taxes.
Anyway, how do you guys respond to liberals when they shit their pants about stuff like this?
I can't stand people who reject Marxism because they don't like the idea of "class conflict" and they'll say things like "yeah but there are good billionaires and bad poor people". OK, whatever, you're still just in denial of reality. Because the class war is going on all around you all the time, and it has nothing to do with individuals. The rich as a class are using their wealth and power to gain more wealth and power at the expense of workers. It's as obvious as any other scientific fact. But libs don't want to see that conflict, probably in no small part because they're not the ones who bear the brunt of it (assuming we're talking about well-off libs in the global north, I mean).
I've had conversations that go like this:
Me: "Humans are part of the natural world, right?"
Lib: "Right."
Me: "And the natural world can be scientifically understood, right?"
Lib: "Right."
Me: "And so humans can also be scientifically understood, right? Like, medical science has made massive advances in the last hundred years, for example?"
Lib: "Right."
Me: "And so human societies can also be scientifically understood, right?"
Lib: "Wrong. Humans are too complicated to understand like that."
Me: "Because black holes are simple in comparison to human societies?"
One conversation I had like this veered into millions of people dying in the USSR, but I was ready. I said that these deaths took place after the devastation of the Russian Civil War, after the USSR was invaded by the USA and other imperial powers (liberals never, ever, ever know about this), and that later on even the CIA admitted that Soviets generally ate better than Americans. I could have thrown in that the Holodomor is Nazi propaganda, but it wasn't necessary—the lib I was talking with recognized quickly that I knew a lot more about this than he did. Libs are fundamentally disadvantaged here because, aside from a surface-level disapproval of all things communist, they don't want to know more about it. After all, if they actually read about this shit, they might start to realize that they themselves are the enemies of modern history!
They also get super angry if you say things like: gravity can be understood, evolution can be understood, human society can also be understood. They just don't want to talk about it, at which point I inform them to get in touch with the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. Then I realize that a much better communist wouldn't bother with these kinds of arguments and would have instead liberated twenty american cities by now.
a key point and well made
Yeah the trump card we have is that we know the history better than pretty much anyone else we will ever come across.
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