I have 2. The People's Republic of Walmart is one. Maybe I feel this way because I work in the industry and I'm a little familiar with central planning techniques... but I just thought it was all fluff with little substance. I felt like more than one chapter was just "Walmart and Amazon do central planning so it's possible" without getting into a lot of the details. Very little about the nuts and bolts of central planning. Throw in a good dose of anti-Stalinism when the man oversaw successful central planning... I just didn't get anything out of it. Might be OK if you want a real basic introduction behind the ideas of planning but honestly I bet like 95% of you already know more about it than you realize.

And I love Graeber but jeez, I couldn't even finish Bullshit Jobs. It felt like a good article that was blown out into a book. Maybe my expectations were too high but I felt like he spent way too many pages getting into minutiae about what is/isn't a bullshit job without actually making a broader point.

  • ComradeRat [he/him, they/them]
    ·
    2 years ago

    other modes of production exist within capitalism as pockets, with little to no overlap with commodity producing societies, these get drawed into circulation, and their people get thrown into the process of pauperization,

    No, other modes of production exist within capital and exchange with them as they are slowly consumed by capitalist production/circulation/etc. They don’t exist as autonomies, this is outdated scholarship (outdated even by late Marx people rly need to stop recommending the manifesto just read Capital he really worked hard on it plz ppl read Capital). Even today there are peasant communities who hold their land collectively, produce goods collectively, distribute them collectively, etc, but they are folded into larger global systems that demand they buy fertilisers and GMO seeds which means they need to produce for exchange value (and this transformation warps the mode of production and slowly changes it into a capitalist-approximating mode of production but not the exact same thing bc capital does not remake the colonies in its own image; it remakes the colonies in the image of underdevelopment to serve the needs of the imperial core). There are also peasant communities that aim to become more self-sufficient, as you’re describing, but this is generally motivated not by unwillingness to trade with neighbours (historically peasants actually do travel in their area and exchange goods) but rather because they’d like to stay the fuck out of the capitalist hellworld europe made. I don’t have many sources for stuff on peasants offhand because I learnt it from a class with a author who’s involved (afaik he goes back to India in the Summers and uses his research funding to research the enemy (i.e. multinationals and such)) in a peasant struggle. This class looked over the history of development of underdevelopment and imperialism, particularly in relation to peasants and other non-capitalist modes of production. Some good books that look at similar themes (but these are NOT citations for the above) are Kapoor and Jordan’s “Research, Political Engagement and Dispossesion,” “Open Veins of Latin America* by Galeano, Gordon & Webber’s Blood of Extraction, Engler’s Canada In Africa, and Patnaik & Moyo’s Primitive Accumulation and the Peasantry: The Agrarian Question in the Neoliberal Era. For an interesting, though less related bc it’s not about peasants, look at how the process of destroying the AES mode of production in Poland, Dunn’s Privatizing Poland is very interesting (though with some bad takes) read. Process of pauperization is different from this; you’re conflating the process of ‘so-called primitive accumulation’ (accumulation by dispossession) with subsumtion.

    and formal and real subsumsion , the actual mode of production does not exist in the same time and place as capital, it exists separate from it, and once it enters into contact with it, its traditional forms of production are destroyed.

    For clarity; are you proposing that, the moment the nehiyawak traded a beaver pelt to a european on the banks of Hudson Bay, the entire nehiyaw mode of production was “destroyed” instantly? Are you unaware that this process took centuries? Are you unaware that this process was not one step, but several, preceding at times slowly and at times more quickly? Are you unaware that this process proceed not in one direction, but dialectically in a conflict between modes of existence, and that at some times the conflict leaned one way and sometimes another? I suggest you read Mays An Afro-Indigenous History of the United States it goes into the conflicts in the American context. Also recommend Cree Narrative Memory by McLeod as examination of that conflict from the position of the colonised.

    Also farmers in Kenya are not part of a “peasant form of production” What even is this? are you calling single family farms the “peasant mode of production”?

    No more than talking about a “capitalist mode of production” implies individual factories are their own modes of production. I am calling the widespread, generalised production of crops on land ‘owned’ collectively by a family, wherein the products are distributed (excepting whatever is extracted in rent/taxes/etc) among that family and consumed by that family with the main mode of circulation between families and villages often (but not always) taking the form of specific gifts, services, etc, rather than money and exchange value. On the Origins of English Individualism has a good description in the opening chapter of my criteria, though I disagree with some of the book’s later conclusions (and especially it’s framing of individualism as good).

    they are a class of farmers that has not suffered the full centralization of capital.

    Centralisation of capital is “concentration of capitals already formed, destruction of their individual independence, expropriation of capitalist by capitalist, transformation of many small into few large capitals.” I.e. it is capitalists expropriating each other. You mean to say they are an independent class of capitalist-farmers? This would require them to 1. own land 2. produce on that land in the capitalist mode (i.e. with wage labour) and then 3. distribute the products in the capitalist mode (i.e. owner gets the products, wage labourers get none of the products (they get wage)) and then 4. consume (whether productively or unproductively) the products as they choose. To my knowledge, before the post-2008 neoliberal landgrabs (still ongoing afaik) in Africa, there were actually still peasants owning their lands as families in Kenya, but selling their goods to big capitalists, paying rents/taxes to government or local authorities. To my knowledge (I still haven’t read We Feed the World yet but I’ve read papers in that class which made similar points so I feel relatively comfortable gesturing towards it for further reading) a lot of our (global north) food is actually produced in this manner (in the global south), even today. Family ownership of land (not “father owns and then son inherits”, actual familial ownership) is not the same as capitalist ownership; for one it often does not involve the right to alienate that land, hence why much of the landgrabbing is heavily resisted. This is not the expropriation of capitalist by capitalist that Marx defines as the centralisation of capital in chapter 28 of Volume One; it is the process of ‘so called primitive accumulation’ he discusses in part 8.

    Peasants produce for themselves, with little to no trade,

    This isn’t true as an absolute (or even general) rule, historically, but that would be digressing too far (and I’d have to get books from the library to check citations which I don’t feel like doing).

    Also “domestic mode of production”? is each family its own mode of production now? Apparently these families do not belong to society according to you, or is the family structure not a part of capitalist production?

    No. Domestic production is not wage labour and it’s not performed to produce exchange value, it’s performed to create a use value (labour power, in the final analysis) i.e. it is not carried out in the capitalist mode of production (which uses wage labour and produces for exchange value particularly surplus value). This is the term used by Delphy in Close to Home: A Materialist Analysis of Women’s Oppression; her use of it is to show how much labour is done in the household (for free, generally by women) to produce the use values that the capitalists appropriate gratis (similar argument to Marx’s discussion of capitalist appropriation of nature as “free,” basically) as a contribution to marxist-feminist theory. She also does some very important theoretical work in the book with what class means. Her book is not a rejection of class struggle, it is an examination of a form of exploitation Marx was too high on patriarchal ideology to notice. Another book I’d advise reading to get a better grip on the production capital doesn’t want you thinking about is More Work for Mother by Cowan; it examines the domestic labour process from a similar standpoint to Marx’s examination of the industrial labour process in Chapter 13-15. Not going to respond to the other points in this other than to point out that, for expressing “I don’t know modern theory, please explain what these terms mean” you sounded very aggressive here. I would advise, when engaging in good faith with other leftists, you try and actually ask questions and clarify rather than act like a liberal on twitter who’s just looking to start trouble for fun.

    • ComradeRat [he/him, they/them]
      ·
      2 years ago

      “Capitalist” as in merchants do exist in previous societies, but they are not part of a capitalist mode of production that is not dominant, they are just parts of feudal society,.

      “Feudal society.” Friend, the same criticism I applied to ‘capitalist society’ or ‘capitalism’ applies here. “Feudal society” would be literally everything in whatever society you’re talking about, and so it would include merchant-capitalists, but this does not mean merchant capitalists are operating using the feudal mode of production; the merchant-capitalists are not land-owners, they do not get anything from the peasants on that land without trading for it (i.e. mediated through exchange value i.e. not feudal mode of circulation) because they are not land owners.The entire structure of feudal mode of production based on relationships and services explicitly defined in qualitative terms (as discussed by Marx in Volume One), merchant-capital operates very differently from that, even in this era. It has to interact with feudal mode, yes, the individual merchant capitalist can wear multiple hats, the individual merchant capitalist moves between different modes of circulation production distribution consumption because, in all societies, there exist multiple means of all of those things. In their role as merchant, however, the merchant would only be doing merchant things. If he manages to buy land, marry into the aristocracy and kept being a merchant while receiving tribute from peasants on that land, he would be engaging in two (many more actually bc domestic would be here too) modes of production at the same time, which is how it usually is (although from what I know, historically if they could become a noble, merchants would stop doing merchant things) in reality. In Capital Marx explicitly says, very early on (before he’s even discussed the working day), that he is only considering individuals in their roles in the capitalist mode of production; this is why he brackets out personal consumption and brackets out so much complexity (often explicitly saying he is doing so because Marx was not trying to describe reality, he was trying to describe the capitalist mode of production which is the prevailing mode of production in our society which means it has the largest influence on the structure of our society, but it is not the only structure (even the totality of volume 3 (production, circulation, distribution and credit) explicitly brackets out everything falling outside of that from the immediate analysis, he does not say they do not exist.

      The reason why they operate “outside of production”, is because they only sell the surplus product of peasants, and do not dominate production,

      Yes, this is partially correct. You’re neglecting the role of the cities in producing manufactured goods, however. Many peasants don’t make all of their own tools; generally they trade with other people, whether peasants in their or other villages or travelling merchants or some other such way, but they usually do have a lotta stuff that was produced outside their particular family (which is the basic unit of the peasant mode of production as I define it, production and consumption united in the family).

      and they do not “prefer to produce use values “outside”” What?

      Yeah my bad here. The phrasing was very bad I think. I mean to say that, when possible, capitalists would prefer to appropriate use values without providing what would be (in the capitalist mode of production/etc) an equivalent exchange value as possessed by the use value. I.e. they would prefer to take stuff and pay less, or even nothing for the use value. One example is something “furnished by Nature gratis”; i.e. the ideological belief of capitalists that they can consume the natural world with reckless abandon because it has no value unless altered by labour and as such can be appropriated for free. Similarly, as Delphy shows in Close to Home and Cowan shows in More Work for Mother, female coded/domestic labour is appropriated gratis, allowing for the production of use values with no “value” in terms of the capitalist mode of production. Another example is how the commute to work gets labelled as outside of your labour by your boss despite being a clear and necessary part of getting your work done; they’ve placed that labour, the labour of reproducing your labour power at the till at 5 AM, outside of the capitalist mode of production so that it becomes ‘natural’ that the commute is completed with no need to compensate the worker for the transportation.

      This doesn’t mean anything, they do not chose whether they follow the law of value or not, it simply does not apply to them given the fact that capital cannot A. control production at this time and B. flow in and out of the different sectors, thus prices equal values, and prices of production do not exist.

      Prices never ever equals value, it’s a reflection of exchange value which is the value of the labour that would be required to reproduce the commodity in given condition. Marx is very clear about this so I’m unsure where the confusion is coming from. Value can and does differ significantly from exchange value and price; that’s the basis of relative surplus value which is the basis of the constant search for new technologies. Capital not controlling production is irrelevant to the functioning of commercial capital; the basis of capitalist production is the profits from commercial capital and accumulation by dispossession. You don’t seem to realise that medieval and earlier societies can and did have different prices for given commodities at different cities, towns and villages based on the value required to produce (production includes transportation see vol2 ch6) that commodity in that place and time. A good book on how medieval English markets worked, for example, is Masschaele’s Peasants, Merchants and Markets (although i would disagree with classifying the peasants in this book as peasants in terms of using the peasant mode of production/etc) 3/3