What do the fascists get out of saying the truth? Shouldn’t they be cheering on the war machine? My conservative family is sharing this vid around and I’m very confused on what to do. Why can’t it be socialists and communists who get millions of views by talking like this?
No mention of his views on trans people :thonk-trans:
Even if you don't give a shit about the things you mentioned, they matter because they tell us loud and clear that Dore is a grifter who is willing to say whatever gives himself clout. It's foolish to blindly fall behind some random unknown quantity, but in Dore's case he's not even unknown, but rather is known to be a grifter. Like the reason Force The Vote is bad is not like, "How dare you criticize AOC!" it's because it shows how he's willing to infight or pick pointless fights just to increase his own clout. He'd happily do the same to a more ideologically committed person/org if he saw the opportunity.
The question is not whether we can stomach Dore's views for the case of advancing our agenda, but whether aligning with Dore actually does anything to advance our agenda at all. If we rally around grifters and clout chasers, then we very quickly lose control of our messaging, and actually accomplishing things will not be a priority. By aligning with someone like Dore, we would be potentially sacrificing the ability to unite with people who he randomly attacks to gain clout, as well as the people who recognize him as a grifter and don't want to be associated with him. And he offers virtually nothing in exchange.
It's fucking wild how quickly people on here will throw actual orgs under the bus in favor of some random online grifter with a two minute clip on Fox News.
What does this mean, though? I'm opposed to the war, but I don't "align" with Dore. I'm just pleased to see any anti war rhetoric on mainstream TV.
By align I mean the same sorts of things the person I was responding to was talking about. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, letting yourself be associated with him, etc. Admittedly the whole thing is kind of irrelevant materially speaking, but it matters in terms of optics.
Antiwar rhetoric on TV is good. I guess I see it the same way as I might view some of the "new-Atheist" types, where I was always like, I agree with them to the extent that they agree with me, but they don't speak for me or represent me.
Could you expand on this? How does one let oneself be associated with a douchey youtube shouty guy who sometimes says the right things, much less often than he says the wrong things?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but that seems to be the same position I have, and shipwreck has, about this. If you'll notice their opening sentence is:
If I start telling someone about my position on Ukraine, I'm not going to bring him up, and if someone else brings him up, I'll tell them that I'm only vaguely familiar and make it clear that my views aren't influenced by his. I'm also gonna dunk on people who hand-wring that "the left" (i.e. some tweets I saw) not liking him is a major problem somehow or an indication of hypocrisy or bad priorities.
shipwreck isn't who I responded to?
And yeah the person I responded to admits he has bad positions but also goes on to make all these sweeping criticisms of "the left" for not wanting to be associated with him, which is what I disagree with.