Permanently Deleted

  • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
    ·
    edit-2
    2 years ago

    That's it, I'm saying it. Imperial units (at least for length) are better than metric (at least for day to day usage). What's 1/3 of a meter? 33.3333333... centimeters. What's 1/3 of a foot? 4 inches. Base-12 is significantly easier to do mental math with.

    Now, there are many imperial units that are not in base 12, and those suck. Like, why is volume measured in base 16? Edit: I looked it up and volume is (in the u.s. system which ig is not imperial) on a base-2 logarithmic scale, But it's not consistent, so still bad for mental math.

    • CriticalResist8 [he/him]
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      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Lol this is actually a recurring argument I have with a friend. Both of our opinions never end up budging.

      For most applications 1/3rd of a meter does not need to exist. Like if I buy a wardrobe they'll say it'll be 180cm tall, 240cm wide, etc. What's 180cm in inches? 70 and ~43/50th. Which makes no sense, nobody is going to measure forty-three fiftieths of anything, ever.

      And so your wardrobes are not 180cm tall but like 6 feet. Which is 182cm and some decimals. Which again makes no sense, in most contexts it makes no sense to transcribe units 1 to 1.

      It's the same trap people fall into when they give you stuff from pounds to kilos. They'll say "I weigh 167 pounds (or 75.15kg)" but like, we would just say 75 kilos. Nobody cares about the 150 grams. Or like in recipes, "add 4 ounces of oil, which is 113.398 grams" okay so 110 grams.

      We just measure stuff differently because our units work differently. For more precise stuff, the metric system allows not only to go into decimals (I don't see how measuring to 3.33333 is a bad thing when the imperial system doesn't allow for that much granularity), but also has a name for each of those decimals. You see 33.3333333333 centimetres, but ultimately in most applications you would stop at 33.333 or 33cm, 3 millimetres, 3 micrometers and 3 nanometres.

      My friend's go-to argument is that for canvas for example (she used to paint), you "couldn't" divide it in thirds if you wanted a margin, if it was metric. That's because canvasses in the US are measured in inches. In the metric world they're measured in centimetres, which means your canvas will measure say 12 centimetres or whatever. And then you can divide that 12cm in thirds and get whole numbers. And if your canvas was 8 inches wide you couldn't divide that in thirds either anyway.

      • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Sure mathematically, they are the same, I won't argue that. I'm talking about just doing the math in your head quickly. Base 12 units, like inches in a foot, are divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6, whereas base-10 units are only divisible by 2 and 5. Mental math becomes very easy if you need 1/3, 1/4, or 1/6 of something. I am a proponent of switch all numbers and units to the duodecimal system.

        • CriticalResist8 [he/him]
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          edit-2
          2 years ago

          That's the same reasoning my friend gives me haha

          Dividing by 12 is "only" useful precisely because you don't have anything smaller than an inch, except fractions of an inch, of which only so many exist. We can keep adding decimals as needed in the metric system although it's not really a situation we routinely come across. In such a case though calculators aren't difficult to find these days. Like if I need a plank cut in 8 sections at the hardware store I can ask them to cut it for me. I can even ask them to cut in in 9ths and we'll just throw away the little piece that remains (though I'm sure this is possible in imperial too).

          The granularity of the metric system also allows for things such as 12cm (or 12m or anything else) to exist, which effectively also allows us to divide them by the same factors you mentioned. Like if my painting canvas was 12cm tall, then I could create margins in thirds, fourths, sixths, etc. I could also just measure them from the side and make them whichever size I want down to 1 millimetre.

          edit: nevermind my first conclusion. I think dividing by factors of 12 is a "shortcut" of sorts due to the "rigidity" of the imperial system (when it comes to feet and inches). It's easier to say "I need this cut in thirds or sixths". In metric, I would say "I need this cut to 1.25m or 1.5m" because it entirely depends on the overall length of what I'm measuring. And that length can be 150cm, 160cm, 170cm... which imperial doesn't really transcribe well.

          • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Counterpont: I've never heard of anyone using metric time. That is in base 12 (or 24, or 60, but that's just multiples of 12).

              • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
                ·
                2 years ago

                And also because you rarely need time to be more precise than a minute.

                Yeah, so a duodecimal system, which can be divided by many factors is easier to do mentally.

    • Henle [he/him]
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      2 years ago

      Well inches and feet are the only imperial unit that works for base 12 at all, so that's kind of a bad example

      Ounces, pounds, liquid ounces, quarts gallons etc none of that shit work for the system you just said.

      Just look at fucking feet to miles and try to use your fucking base 12 on that.

      Also what's smaller than an inch or an ounce? Fuck you that's what better break out the fractions you just shit talked

      • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
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        edit-2
        2 years ago

        Volume is easy, with some caveats.

        • 1 ounce = 2 tablesspoons
        • 1 cup=8 ounces= 2^3 ounces
        • 1 pint=2 cups= 2^4 ounces
        • 1 quarts = 2 pints = 2^5 ounces
        • 1 gallon = 4 quarts = 2^7 ounces

        We need a unit between ounce and cup and quat and gallon, but it's pretty consistent.

        • keepcarrot [she/her]
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          2 years ago

          1 cup = what now?

          idk I'm used to saying that 21 degrees is comfortable and 30-40 degrees is increasingly warm/hot. I can say decimals if I want to, but no one is that precise. We had a 46 degree day last year and no one was like "were it only 45.3" or something. I never got that particular argument; the granularity for human comfort is way less than the 200 degrees. That said, other people are used to it the other way.

          For some reason, I remember that it's 5280 feet per mile. I don't use either measurement for anything. I think I just remember random numbers. idk how many inches that is tho

      • Awoo [she/her]
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        edit-2
        2 years ago

        Just look at fucking feet to miles and try to use your fucking base 12 on that.

        You're comparing the wrong things. You use yards to mile, and you use feet to yards. There are 1760 yards in a mile and there are 1760 feet in one third of a mile. You're right that they're not base 12 but the base 16 stuff seems to be used for longer distances while base 12 is used for shorter measurements. Feet are used for measuring room size distances. Yards are used for walking distances. Miles are used for non-walking distances requiring horse (or wheels in the modern day).

    • crosswind [they/them]
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      2 years ago

      It seems like dividing a foot into thirds is nearly the only time imperial has this advantage. So all you need is a meter stick where, on one side, the centimeters are subdivided into millimeters, and on the other they are divided into thirds. Then a third of a meter would be 33 1/3 cm. You would have exact markings for 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, and 1/6 of a meter. If rulers like this were more common, what reason would there still be to use imperial?

      Also if you have something that is built to be 1 foot long, under the metric system it would probably be built to be 30cm long, so 1/3 of it would be exactly 10cm.

      • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
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        2 years ago

        You use base-12 telling time right? Technically base-24 or base-60, but it's the same concept. Dividing things into whole numbers is easier mental math. I can say a quarter after 4 have you'll know what that means a lot faster than if I said 3 1/4 meters in cm, for example.

        • crosswind [they/them]
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          2 years ago

          I agree with the benefits of a base 12 system, but I'm saying the situations where the imperial system can actually leverage that to be easier to use than the metric system are very limited. You can pick out examples where it's true, but there's cases where it goes the other way, and a lot of the time you won't get round numbers when you divide by 3 in either system.

      • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
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        edit-2
        2 years ago

        Okay but what's 1/2 of a foot?

        • 6 inches, also, okay is not a word. O.K. is Boston slang meaning 'oll korrect'

        1/8?

        • 1/2 of 1/4 = 1 1/2 inches

        1/5

        • Literally the only one metric wins on. And the 1/10, I guess

        3/7

        • Do this one in your head

        1/9

        • 1/3 of 1/3 = 4/3 or 1 1/3 inches.

        1/10

        • If we were a sane base-12 society, 1

        You're getting caught up on the precision and not the ease with which one can do the calculations

          • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
            ·
            2 years ago

            It is the equivalent amount of time to do precise calculations because I own a calculator

              • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
                ·
                2 years ago

                Sure, not if you are using a calculator, but my point was mental math is easier. You've yet to prove me wrong.

                No calculator, what is 1/9th of a meter?

                  • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    1/10 would be 1.2 inches. I said metric had that beat.

                    It's like 3 am and I had like 10 comments coming after me because people got wound up over someone saying the foot is preferable to a meter. Honestly, feels like a lot of Europeans who haven't considered that their holy measuring system my not be absolutely perfect. I'm gonna be a bit snarky.

                    1/9 of a meter is a about 11.1 centimeters

                    True, but did you calculate that or memorize it? If you did calculate it, was it as easy as 12/3/3? If you didn't, do you know how to?

          • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
            ·
            2 years ago

            As for your other arguments, I couldn't make sense of them so I ignored them. My comment proved my original point. No more to say.

    • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]
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      2 years ago

      33cm is close enough for most things you don't need a tool to measure.

      You just think it's easier because you're used to it and built your intuition around the stupidity.

      • KnilAdlez [none/use name]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Not only am I familiar with base-10 number systems, but I'm also a software engineer, so I have used base-2, base-8, and base-16. Base-10 is the worst and should not be used. Base-12 is the based for human intuition. I would have no issue with metric if it was just base-12 instead of base-10.