that's deeply bizzare for them to put up how the hell can you be a loyalist to the British state whilst also apparently leading a military for one of Britains officially declared enemies
Loyalists have, and would again, kill members of the British state for their own benefit.
There was a ton of collusion between state security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries but they definitely also fought each other, as the paramilitaries operated like gangs. Loyalist doesn't mean you have love of all the actions of the British State, just that you wish N.I to remain in the union. If loyalists think that the British State is doing something that would weaken N.I remaining in the union then they're not above killing the British if they think it'll benefit them and/or ultimately keep the union, as paradoxical as that sounds.
Well typically the story is that you're a loyalist who grew up being British and protestant, to parents that where British and protestant, with grandparents that where British and protestant, and so on and so forth. Then your Dad or Brother gets shot in a field by the IRA in a tit for tat killing. So you join the UDA and go out and kill some catholic kids Dad or Brother and the cycle repeats. To the loyalist, your land, family, neighbours, town, and local government have been British/Unionist since long before you or any of your living family where born so there's not even a conceivable reason to think otherwise.
You gotta remember that before the internet-age for a lot of these towns in N.I, none of the people living there had ever meet a catholic let alone been exposed to their politics.
fair enough I have noticed a trend where the Irish people I know seem to use British as an identity in opposition to any other identity as opposed to the more conventional view in the UK that it is a supplemental identity and someone can be comfortably Irish, Scottish, Welsh, or English and also British on top of that
You'd be hard pressed to find one that does. Irish people from Ireland are obviously not British. Republicans in Northern Ireland aren't going to consider themselves British either, maybe "under British Rule" or "British subjects".
The Northern Irish Loyalist might admit under stress they're "Irish" in a technical sense, but they're going to call themselves British first and foremost. People who don't care either way are more likely to self-identify as just "Northern Irish" with all the baggage that implies.
Yeah that's the difference in meaning in the rest of the UK British means from the British isles which is a geographic term the same way Cuba is Caribbean Ireland is British because it's part of the geographic region the British Isles
The Isle of man similarly isn't part of the UK but is British
One of my favorite historical events is the Irish Home Rule Crisis where Ulster Unionists (alongside British military sympathizers) set up a paramilitary force and explicitly detailed their plans to fight the British state if the British state gave Ireland Home Rule aka self-governance. They were literally threatening to fight the British state for giving them nominal independence. Fighting for the right to be ruled by the people they wanted to fight.
that's deeply bizzare for them to put up how the hell can you be a loyalist to the British state whilst also apparently leading a military for one of Britains officially declared enemies
Loyalists have, and would again, kill members of the British state for their own benefit.
There was a ton of collusion between state security forces and Loyalist paramilitaries but they definitely also fought each other, as the paramilitaries operated like gangs. Loyalist doesn't mean you have love of all the actions of the British State, just that you wish N.I to remain in the union. If loyalists think that the British State is doing something that would weaken N.I remaining in the union then they're not above killing the British if they think it'll benefit them and/or ultimately keep the union, as paradoxical as that sounds.
huh didn't know that. Kind of weird to be a terrorist for a cause as lame as remaining in the union
Well typically the story is that you're a loyalist who grew up being British and protestant, to parents that where British and protestant, with grandparents that where British and protestant, and so on and so forth. Then your Dad or Brother gets shot in a field by the IRA in a tit for tat killing. So you join the UDA and go out and kill some catholic kids Dad or Brother and the cycle repeats. To the loyalist, your land, family, neighbours, town, and local government have been British/Unionist since long before you or any of your living family where born so there's not even a conceivable reason to think otherwise.
You gotta remember that before the internet-age for a lot of these towns in N.I, none of the people living there had ever meet a catholic let alone been exposed to their politics.
fair enough I have noticed a trend where the Irish people I know seem to use British as an identity in opposition to any other identity as opposed to the more conventional view in the UK that it is a supplemental identity and someone can be comfortably Irish, Scottish, Welsh, or English and also British on top of that
You'd be hard pressed to find one that does. Irish people from Ireland are obviously not British. Republicans in Northern Ireland aren't going to consider themselves British either, maybe "under British Rule" or "British subjects".
The Northern Irish Loyalist might admit under stress they're "Irish" in a technical sense, but they're going to call themselves British first and foremost. People who don't care either way are more likely to self-identify as just "Northern Irish" with all the baggage that implies.
Yeah that's the difference in meaning in the rest of the UK British means from the British isles which is a geographic term the same way Cuba is Caribbean Ireland is British because it's part of the geographic region the British Isles
The Isle of man similarly isn't part of the UK but is British
One of my favorite historical events is the Irish Home Rule Crisis where Ulster Unionists (alongside British military sympathizers) set up a paramilitary force and explicitly detailed their plans to fight the British state if the British state gave Ireland Home Rule aka self-governance. They were literally threatening to fight the British state for giving them nominal independence. Fighting for the right to be ruled by the people they wanted to fight.