I talked to my boss when I first got hired about being pregnant and doing my job. It was a very physical job with long hours and could be quite dirty, but many women did it pregnant. He agreed with me that pregnancy was no hindurance to the job. For over a year I talked about becoming pregnant and he assured me it was okay. On the day I was supposed to fly out to meet the parents, he informed me that he would let me go if I went. I had my shift covered, everything was in line. I was dumb founded when he said that if I thought he was going to let me work there pregnant I was wrong. All that time he had been fine with it. So I prodded, trying to find out what changed his mind. His wife even did the same job while she was pregnant with their son! His response was "but she didn't sell the baby." He wouldn't let me explain, talk to him, or show him why he was wrong. He just told me to leave. I loved working there until that day and no amount of money could have brought me back after that. Selling my baby?? So far from the truth!
Based leftist boss fighting against human trafficking?? :so-true:
I mean, I gotta admit, like if someone's boss found out they were involved in selling children off to Little St. James and fired them, and I doubt anyone would fault them for it. And based on the thread we had the other day, it seems like a lot of this site believes that surrogacy is "literally buying babies" or equivalent to Murray Rothbard's "free market for infants" - or at least, a bunch of you think that's a reasonable position to have. So I'm curious if any of the 50 or so people who upbeared that thread see any problem with that boss's decision to fire his pregant worker for, as you would agree, "selling her baby." I'm curious to know if you'd make the same decision in his shoes, and if you see any problem with that situation - other than of course, that he couldn't hand her over to the cops as well.
I guess I'm just trying to better understand your positions. Like, is this something that you actually believe, or is it a superficial, exaggerated rhetorical flourish that you know is bullshit but use anyway because it provides a pretext for infringing on women's rights? You know, like "abortion is murder?"
I also wouldn't mind hearing from some centrists and moderates on the issue. Those who think both sides have a point, between, "Surrogate mothers are engaging in human trafficking by returning a child to their biological parent," and, "Surrogate mothers have a right to bodily autonomy." Is there one side that you think is more reasonable, or are you a true centrist, right in the middle of those two, equally extreme positions?
While I'm at it, I'd also like to open up the discussion more broadly. Is there anything else women's bodies do that you think is immoral, or maybe just plain gross? Anything else you think ought to be illegal? I'm really looking to hear from some men here, because I feel like we never get their perspective on that.
Anti-surrogacy is just anti-choice for anti-natalists.
I don't have a strong opinion but that's the most convoluted strawman I ever saw.
I'd love to hear what part of the reasoning these people disagree with.
The tale about the boss
Yeah, which part?
It's perfectly reasonable to fire someone because they spend their free time buying and/or selling children.
Surrogacy is the buying and selling of children
Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to fire someone for choosing to become a surrogate mother.
Seems like a pretty logical conclusion to draw, provided you agree with 2, which is what they claim.
I don't think surrogacy is selling children.
Surrogacy to me is yet another example of thing that, if it's transactional, can become fucked up real quick given the current system. People should be able to do it if they want, but it becomes fucked up when somebody is forced by conditions to do it.
I guess being pregnant and giving birth is like a big psychological deal for the person doing it, so that's why I don't vibe with rich reptiles paying desperate people to ¿host? (idk what's the correct term) their embryos. Sure, those same reptiles will pay to other desperate people to raise their born children, etc.
I just don't want to cheerlead a new kind of exploitation. Sure, exploitation is everywhere, etc.
Similar to prostitution, not legalizing, and so not regulating, transactional surrogacies can lead to "precarization" of the situation for the people forced to do it. Even worse if complete ban.
Idk
Then you're not someone who the story about the boss was directed at. There were people on here going around saying that and getting upvoted and it is a completly absurd, infuriatingly incorrect description of the situation. I presented the example that I did in order to crush that line into the dirt and to bully the people saying that shit into understanding that it's completely unacceptable. It's not really a strawman if people are literally saying that exact thing, it's just a criticism of a more extreme position than what you personally believe.
The question I have is, are people actually being forced into it? I have seen some stories regarding people in developing countries being taken advantage of, and that has caused me to back off in that specific context. But I have still not seen any evidence that surrogate mothers in the west are being forced into or taken advantage of. I'm of the mind-set that if I'm going to tell someone that they shouldn't be allowed to do something that they want to do, then I should have something that I can point at, and that something should be real, material evidence and not just speculation and hypotheticals, which is what the majority of people on here are basing their takes on.
Same, but I live in such country. The thing about those situations is that not only a US dollar is worth a lot more in peripheral countries, but also the people from the imperial core become shielded against any kind of legal demand from the surrogate mother cuz :us-foreign-policy:.
But you are not shielded against possible exploitation either. If surrogacy is fully legalized and regulated (to the favor of rich people of course) in the imperial core, instead of going thru the hassle of travelling to the third world, rich people will be able to exploit desperate people at home.
Again, the whole thing seems exactly the same as prostitution discourse.
In which case, again, I'm inclined to base my opinions on how the people actually involved feel about it and what they think should be done - something which hardly anyone on this site seems remotely interested in doing. Just takes, takes, and more takes.