The early Soviet Union went out of its way to propose "utopian shit," including sending trains full of proposals of "utopian shit" along rail lines just so peasants in the countryside could see that "utopian shit" and get inspired and motivated by it.
Much of the groundbreaking Soviet space program also had "utopian shit" to get people interested and get them excited enough to care about what could be.
What is your proposal for "winning the class war" that doesn't involve that?
Why do you believe that the transformation of the environment is not class warfare? What do you think the bourgeoisie were doing when they transformed cities around the world into car-centric, human-hostile concrete deserts were doing? Not class warfare?
Where are you going to get "troops" without recruiting them with a message? What is the message without "utopian shit?" You might win some of them over with sheer contrarianism but that won't work outside of college campuses.
I don't know where you got the idea that I'm nihilistic, I have hope I just don't care about these kinds of ideas until there's a people's movement. I definitely have no hope that just dreaming up cool things will change the world, but I have a lot of hope that organized popular movements can
I don’t know where you got the idea that I’m nihilistic
I just don’t care about these kinds of ideas
"Society can be improved somewhat, hey look at what can be done with this waste of land and resources and how relatively easy it would be to do it if the people took it back" being called "utopian shit" leaves room for... what? What would you offer to unaligned people that doesn't involve any "utopian shit" whatsoever?
The early Soviet Union went out of its way to propose "utopian shit," including sending trains full of proposals of "utopian shit" along rail lines just so peasants in the countryside could see that "utopian shit" and get inspired and motivated by it.
Much of the groundbreaking Soviet space program also had "utopian shit" to get people interested and get them excited enough to care about what could be.
What is your proposal for "winning the class war" that doesn't involve that?
That's when you're supposed to start the Utopian talk yeah after you have found a way to counter class power
Why do you believe that the transformation of the environment is not class warfare? What do you think the bourgeoisie were doing when they transformed cities around the world into car-centric, human-hostile concrete deserts were doing? Not class warfare?
Obviously doing those things is class warfare, making diagrams isn't.
Do you think that one can transform the environment without diagrams or fight a battle without a battle plan?
No, but I think you have a better chance of winning a battle with troops and no plan than a plan and no troops
we dont have the troops. it is easier to acquire troops with a plan than without a plan.
Where are you going to get "troops" without recruiting them with a message? What is the message without "utopian shit?" You might win some of them over with sheer contrarianism but that won't work outside of college campuses.
deleted by creator
How is contrarian nihilism supposed to "do those things?" Sneering at people for having hope isn't going to organize them.
I don't know where you got the idea that I'm nihilistic, I have hope I just don't care about these kinds of ideas until there's a people's movement. I definitely have no hope that just dreaming up cool things will change the world, but I have a lot of hope that organized popular movements can
"Society can be improved somewhat, hey look at what can be done with this waste of land and resources and how relatively easy it would be to do it if the people took it back" being called "utopian shit" leaves room for... what? What would you offer to unaligned people that doesn't involve any "utopian shit" whatsoever?