Police in the Xinjiang region of China rely on a master list of 50,000 multimedia files they deem “violent and terrorist” to flag Uyghur and other Turkic Muslim residents for interrogation. An investigation found that over nine months, police conducted nearly 11 million searches of a total of 1.2 million mobile phones in Urumqi, Xinjiang’s capital city of 3.5 million residents.
At its peak Xinjiang was seeing a terror attack in the form of a mass bombing or mass shooting (often at train stations) twice a month. 15-30 people would die in each of these attacks.
This has nothing to do with islamophobia. It has everything to do with extremist islam that was imported by CIA operating over the border in Afghanistan.
Before you get in a spin over what the Chinese did in this region it is essential to look at why they approached the problem in this region in this way by familiarising yourself with the history, the conditions and the threat they were facing.
You can not make this kind of claim with no sourcing and also this one
People that were following events at the time can remember it. I will try to provide some perspective on this, but my list will not include everything, I don't have an existing list of events that is exhaustive and I hope you can understand that searches for anything about Xinjiang and China are completely polluted by utter garbage to the point that searching for this shit is near impossible. With that said I think I can cover enough to make it visible how serious things were getting at the start of crackdowns.
September 2014 50 killed in series of multiple attacks (archive link for RFA fed written articles, unfortunately the best I can find with the shit way google works)
October 2014 22 farmers killed in attack (this article also talks about some other attacks 2 days beforehand, gives some idea of what kind of things I've missed or not been able to find dedicated articles for, this stuff was easier to follow in real-time than it is to research now)
This is far from exhaustive. This is a mentally exhausting topic to research and I hope you'll forgive me for not really going the full length to show just how fucking bad things were. Consider these some of the big ones, the easiest to find in each month, but there were many more peppered in between them.
This is what caused China to go into a mega crackdown on the region. Roadblocks, mass surveillance and police-state shit. Fuck loads of people were dying and the CIA work to pour these islamic fundamentalist separatists over the border from Afghanistan was genuinely causing an enormous issue.
What followed this was several years of increasing their infrastructure to crack down on the region very hard. Followed by the final re-education program that involved some 1-2 million people undergoing the compulsory education programs 5 days per week (allowed to go home on weekends).
This is what put a stop to the violence, and it was this final program that led to America no longer having any purpose for being in Afghanistan anymore, their ability to stoke extremism in the region had finally been completely eliminated. It took considerable time to build up to that though, the important year that began the process was the enormous violence of 2014.
If someone wanted there is definitely at least twice this from the same year but would require wrestling with the nightmare that is our currently awful search engines.
I miss when they were all incredibly good for a brief few years.
It's not reckless. It's a pretty fair assessment in my opinion. If I were willing I could back it up but I'm afraid I'm simply not, it was tiring enough to quickly go through this and pull up these horrible events for each month.
I want to clear up that I'm not saying that any of this is good. The process was definitely a highly repressive one and that is inarguable. What I am getting at here is that it is important to understand what was going on and where these terror attacks were coming from (CIA operating in afghanistan) to understand why China responded the way it did.
You can say this, but I don’t know if that’s even remotely true, not that things stopped happening, but that it was casual
It wasn't casual lol. It was compulsory and there was resistance from some to begin with. Staying at the facility Monday to Friday was mandatory which certainly wasn't something people were happy about, but they were allowed to go home at weekends. There are some tourist interviews where this is discussed, I seem to remember and Israeli tourist who did a lot of content on his visit to Xinjiang but finding the exact video and part I would be looking for is a needle in a haystack.
You keep acting like it's unfair that people aren't providing you with sourcing in every disagreeing reply that informs you of context you were clearly unaware of before posting a problematic NGO's speculative media campaign.
This is Reddit brain. This exact thing right here. Look at it, criticize it, and consider that we are comrades, not walking Wikipedias or servants or enemies. In a normal conversation, what would you expect from a person disagreeing with you? Do they need to remember the book and page number where Lenin said X or Y? Where Goldman said A or B? Where imperialists supported a given genocide?
I will also point out that when it comes to posting propaganda against the empire's primary targets, it's really your job, not anyone else's, to know the context and meaning behind it. If you don't want to put in the work to understand, you can always just not post the propaganda. It's a good rule of thumb to not post such things until you're ready for a well-grounded criticism session and know exactly what the goal of it is. By default, Westerners will tend to be chauvinists and hypocrites, so the most likely outcome of a poorly-supported criticism will be them agreeing to violence against the empire's designated enemies and to feed the ongoing escalatory public sphere towards those designated enemies.
I've seen you ask two people for sources in this way and be generally combative waaay too early with several folks. This is not comradely behavior, particularly given the premise of this post.
And again, this is not Reddit and we are not your enemies. These are fellow comrades who are knowledgeable and informed on this topic.
I strongly disagree that you weren't rude to anyone. The original issues I pointed out would count as rude. I'd say you're taking comrades here for granted and overall they have been very patient. I'd also invite you to ask yourself what you think anyone is getting out of these negative interactions, including yourself.
I don't know anything about your prior interactions with the other user but I do empathize if there were toxic interactions.
Your responses to me and others are overly defensive to the point that they communicate bad faith. Please consider taking a short break or rest so that you can engage with and treat others here like comrades.
Not lie entirely on you? You haven't accepted any fault whatsoever, let alone any of my criticisms or advice.
Trying to point the finger at others to deflect from self-crit is unhelpful, avoidant, and a good example of the defensiveness I'm talking about.
You are not making any sense, are now acting childish and sarcastic towards me, and you need to take a break. Your behavior here is self-destructive. It's as if you want people to have good reason to write you off.
Again, and I mean this in the best of ways, take a fucking break.
"Cite your sources" requires a level of trust that most people haven't earned with me. If I do go to the work of citing widely known facts, I had better not get a knee-jerk rejection when I come back with points.
I've cited sources when I got similar requests. I've sometimes crafted detailed responses detailing them point by point. And I've been burned again and again. Unless I already trust you, or you have made a good argument refuting the claims as a better and more complete version, I don't feel obligated to do as you say.
People who demand evidence for things they already know to be true are usually arguing in bad faith. Would you demand somebody send you a peer reviewed study proving that not everyone likes chocolate chip cookies?
At its peak Xinjiang was seeing a terror attack in the form of a mass bombing or mass shooting (often at train stations) twice a month. 15-30 people would die in each of these attacks.
This has nothing to do with islamophobia. It has everything to do with extremist islam that was imported by CIA operating over the border in Afghanistan.
Before you get in a spin over what the Chinese did in this region it is essential to look at why they approached the problem in this region in this way by familiarising yourself with the history, the conditions and the threat they were facing.
Removed by mod
:lenin-sure:
deleted by creator
People that were following events at the time can remember it. I will try to provide some perspective on this, but my list will not include everything, I don't have an existing list of events that is exhaustive and I hope you can understand that searches for anything about Xinjiang and China are completely polluted by utter garbage to the point that searching for this shit is near impossible. With that said I think I can cover enough to make it visible how serious things were getting at the start of crackdowns.
January 2014, 11 militants dead in attempt to cross Kyrgyzstan border gone wrong
March 2014Multiple attackers with knives. 29 dead at a train station. 137 injured
April 20147 killed in shootout attempting to cross the border with weapons.
April 2014 (2 weeks later) Bombing and knife attack at railway station in Xinjiang. 3 killed, 79 injured.
May 2014 A few weeks later, 2 car bombings on markets, killed 43, injured 90
June 2014 Quieter month, China sentence 9 to death and 81 more to prison for involvement in organising some of the previous attacks
July 2014 37 killed by gang with knives and axes in Xinjiang
September 2014 50 killed in series of multiple attacks (archive link for RFA fed written articles, unfortunately the best I can find with the shit way google works)
October 2014 22 farmers killed in attack (this article also talks about some other attacks 2 days beforehand, gives some idea of what kind of things I've missed or not been able to find dedicated articles for, this stuff was easier to follow in real-time than it is to research now)
November 2014 15 killed in another attack
This is far from exhaustive. This is a mentally exhausting topic to research and I hope you'll forgive me for not really going the full length to show just how fucking bad things were. Consider these some of the big ones, the easiest to find in each month, but there were many more peppered in between them.
This is what caused China to go into a mega crackdown on the region. Roadblocks, mass surveillance and police-state shit. Fuck loads of people were dying and the CIA work to pour these islamic fundamentalist separatists over the border from Afghanistan was genuinely causing an enormous issue.
What followed this was several years of increasing their infrastructure to crack down on the region very hard. Followed by the final re-education program that involved some 1-2 million people undergoing the compulsory education programs 5 days per week (allowed to go home on weekends).
This is what put a stop to the violence, and it was this final program that led to America no longer having any purpose for being in Afghanistan anymore, their ability to stoke extremism in the region had finally been completely eliminated. It took considerable time to build up to that though, the important year that began the process was the enormous violence of 2014.
:rat-salute-2: thank you for tracking down these articles
If someone wanted there is definitely at least twice this from the same year but would require wrestling with the nightmare that is our currently awful search engines.
I miss when they were all incredibly good for a brief few years.
deleted by creator
It's not reckless. It's a pretty fair assessment in my opinion. If I were willing I could back it up but I'm afraid I'm simply not, it was tiring enough to quickly go through this and pull up these horrible events for each month.
I want to clear up that I'm not saying that any of this is good. The process was definitely a highly repressive one and that is inarguable. What I am getting at here is that it is important to understand what was going on and where these terror attacks were coming from (CIA operating in afghanistan) to understand why China responded the way it did.
Where am I getting the "it was the CIA in afghanistan" part from? Watch Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, Chief of Staff to the Secretary of State at the time, he talks about it from 20:53 to 23:12 (just 2 minutes).
It wasn't casual lol. It was compulsory and there was resistance from some to begin with. Staying at the facility Monday to Friday was mandatory which certainly wasn't something people were happy about, but they were allowed to go home at weekends. There are some tourist interviews where this is discussed, I seem to remember and Israeli tourist who did a lot of content on his visit to Xinjiang but finding the exact video and part I would be looking for is a needle in a haystack.
deleted by creator
You keep acting like it's unfair that people aren't providing you with sourcing in every disagreeing reply that informs you of context you were clearly unaware of before posting a problematic NGO's speculative media campaign.
This is Reddit brain. This exact thing right here. Look at it, criticize it, and consider that we are comrades, not walking Wikipedias or servants or enemies. In a normal conversation, what would you expect from a person disagreeing with you? Do they need to remember the book and page number where Lenin said X or Y? Where Goldman said A or B? Where imperialists supported a given genocide?
I will also point out that when it comes to posting propaganda against the empire's primary targets, it's really your job, not anyone else's, to know the context and meaning behind it. If you don't want to put in the work to understand, you can always just not post the propaganda. It's a good rule of thumb to not post such things until you're ready for a well-grounded criticism session and know exactly what the goal of it is. By default, Westerners will tend to be chauvinists and hypocrites, so the most likely outcome of a poorly-supported criticism will be them agreeing to violence against the empire's designated enemies and to feed the ongoing escalatory public sphere towards those designated enemies.
deleted by creator
I've seen you ask two people for sources in this way and be generally combative waaay too early with several folks. This is not comradely behavior, particularly given the premise of this post.
And again, this is not Reddit and we are not your enemies. These are fellow comrades who are knowledgeable and informed on this topic.
deleted by creator
I strongly disagree that you weren't rude to anyone. The original issues I pointed out would count as rude. I'd say you're taking comrades here for granted and overall they have been very patient. I'd also invite you to ask yourself what you think anyone is getting out of these negative interactions, including yourself.
I don't know anything about your prior interactions with the other user but I do empathize if there were toxic interactions.
deleted by creator
None of that is responsive to what I said.
Your responses to me and others are overly defensive to the point that they communicate bad faith. Please consider taking a short break or rest so that you can engage with and treat others here like comrades.
deleted by creator
Not lie entirely on you? You haven't accepted any fault whatsoever, let alone any of my criticisms or advice.
Trying to point the finger at others to deflect from self-crit is unhelpful, avoidant, and a good example of the defensiveness I'm talking about.
You are not making any sense, are now acting childish and sarcastic towards me, and you need to take a break. Your behavior here is self-destructive. It's as if you want people to have good reason to write you off.
Again, and I mean this in the best of ways, take a fucking break.
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Removed by mod
"Cite your sources" requires a level of trust that most people haven't earned with me. If I do go to the work of citing widely known facts, I had better not get a knee-jerk rejection when I come back with points.
I've cited sources when I got similar requests. I've sometimes crafted detailed responses detailing them point by point. And I've been burned again and again. Unless I already trust you, or you have made a good argument refuting the claims as a better and more complete version, I don't feel obligated to do as you say.
People who demand evidence for things they already know to be true are usually arguing in bad faith. Would you demand somebody send you a peer reviewed study proving that not everyone likes chocolate chip cookies?
deleted by creator
Removed by mod