The new OUN-B leader has finished his tour of the US in Philadelphia where he visited a 30 year old memorial to the 🇺🇦division of the Nazi Waffen-SS that has apparently flown under the radar since it was established in 1993 to mark the 50th anniversary of the “Galician Division.”
St Mary's in Elkin Park. Also known as Fox Chase Cemetery, Elkins Park, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, USA
Why doesn't anybody simply smash them? Unwillingness? Fear of prosecution?
I'm quite sure outrage over it lands in our favour more than not, much like when memorials to Thatcher or Churchill over here get defaced or smashed, the right puts up a lot of outrage but the topic's high visibility results in more people becoming educated about them which always moves the needle our way on top of creating a bit of copycatting for a while.
You'd probably have to steal some heavy construction equipment or something to do any real damage too it. Stone and concrete are hard to fuck up with hand tools.
:wojak-nooo: "nooooo don't pull down nazi flags that would be adventurisssssmo"
Ffs this site needs to get a grip on telling people not to do things. The people here seem to want others to do nothing except go to meeting and talk to other communists or make unions and literally fuck all else.
Things you should definitely and can practically do:
Public agitation graffiti messages and/or bannering
Sabo shit, such as but not limited to tree spiking
Pull down nazi stickers and posters
Pull down nazi flags
Punch nazis in the streets
Smash everything that glorifies nazis
Make everything nazi in public, untenable.
It is all valid and useful action that people at an individual level can and should take, especially as likelihood of capture is exceptionally small and even when caught punishment is absolutely fuck all. It's just property damage ffs nobody is killing anyone why are americans here all so fucking soft. It blows my mind. "Noooooo don't spray paint that wall it's adventuriiiismooooooooo!!!"
Nobody is saying it's going to bring about the revolution but little things by lots of people have value in the grander scheme of things. "Adventurism" is limited to stuff that will pull people out of organising for years (or indefinitely) for less value than that person would have been performing smaller acts in the same time frame. The comm is literally c/antifascism and people are like "noooo don't do antifascism that would be adventurinomoooo"
Thank you nazis should not feel safe all nazi shit should be forced into hiding through the knowledge that it will be destroyed otherwise.
They must not be allowed to normalise their presence in public. Memorials included. Do not give them an inch. Every inch that goes uncontested is an invitation to take another inch. Before you know it they've escalated hundreds of times with small enough little things to not get a true reprisal and they've become a far far harder beast to knock down.
I'm not advocating people do things that are high risk or will land them in prison, I'm simply stating that we should actively be encouraging people to take this kind of action because it's genuinely fucking easy to do.
“Adventurism” is limited to stuff that will pull people out of organising for years (or indefinitely) for less value than that person would have been performing smaller acts in the same time frame.
You don't think cops and prosecutors would throw the book at someone defacing/destroying a "war memorial"? This is over property most people don't even know about, too; it's not equivalent to punching a Nazi out in public.
However you view adventurism, "make it something worth the trouble" applies.
Taking down fascist shit is not adventurism. Stop calling it adventurism. This expansion of the term to include mundane things that people will not get caught for is just a suppression of direct actions that are small enough for the individual to take independently.
You are going to get in far more trouble for breaking a fascist's face, you should still do it.
Adventurism is is characterized by "[having no] stable or serious principles, programme, tactics, organisation, and no roots among the masses." A person or small group defacing some fascist memorial is the definition of adventurism -- where are the serious principles or program, the organization, the tactics to translate that action into something meaningful? Where are the roots among the masses for that person and a few folks they hope they can trust?
And again, I'm not saying to never do anything without the sign off of a large vanguard party. I'm saying make it something worth the trouble. If someone's really certain they won't get caught defacing this shit, then it's no trouble, so go right ahead. But no one thinks they'll get caught, so if you're going to gamble, at least do it with something that matters more.
You are going to get in far more trouble for breaking a fascist’s face
Surprisingly, this isn't always the case. It depends on the jurisdiction, but the penalties for vandalism can jump pretty high if the damage is expensive enough or if you're damaging a memorial (I know at least one state makes the latter a felony). A sucker punch Richard Spencer-style is generally a misdemeanor. The sucker punch is probably going to play better for you in front of a jury, too.
It really doesn't, it depends on the fascist's willingness to pursue it vs their extreme embarassment for having the cops deal with it because they got their ass beat by the (supposedly) weak feminine soy people. Our ability to get away with it relies entirely on the shame of the fascists, unless of course they'd been committing assaults too at the time in which case they may not try their luck with law enforcement for that reason instead.
The sucker punch is probably going to play better for you in front of a jury, too.
Punching someone in the face isn't a jury case in most of the world. Certainly not over here. Holding jury cases for every instance of assault would be completely overwhelming there's 2 or 3 per weekend night per nightclub. Do you really do jury cases for things like this over there?
Why doesn't anybody simply smash them? Unwillingness? Fear of prosecution?
I'm quite sure outrage over it lands in our favour more than not, much like when memorials to Thatcher or Churchill over here get defaced or smashed, the right puts up a lot of outrage but the topic's high visibility results in more people becoming educated about them which always moves the needle our way on top of creating a bit of copycatting for a while.
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Yeah but like, there's gotta be at least some cool people there too.
They get vandalized sometimes but I don't know if any have been recently
You'd probably have to steal some heavy construction equipment or something to do any real damage too it. Stone and concrete are hard to fuck up with hand tools.
What did the fascists use when they destroyed the entire partisan memorial cemetery in Bosnia in a single night? https://twitter.com/SamBeharic/status/1537035108015824896
700 grave stones
That and all the other arguments against adventurism. This would be adventurism directed at a symbolic target, too, not even a practical one.
:wojak-nooo: "nooooo don't pull down nazi flags that would be adventurisssssmo"
Ffs this site needs to get a grip on telling people not to do things. The people here seem to want others to do nothing except go to meeting and talk to other communists or make unions and literally fuck all else.
Things you should definitely and can practically do:
Public agitation graffiti messages and/or bannering
Sabo shit, such as but not limited to tree spiking
Pull down nazi stickers and posters
Pull down nazi flags
Punch nazis in the streets
Smash everything that glorifies nazis
Make everything nazi in public, untenable.
It is all valid and useful action that people at an individual level can and should take, especially as likelihood of capture is exceptionally small and even when caught punishment is absolutely fuck all. It's just property damage ffs nobody is killing anyone why are americans here all so fucking soft. It blows my mind. "Noooooo don't spray paint that wall it's adventuriiiismooooooooo!!!"
Nobody is saying it's going to bring about the revolution but little things by lots of people have value in the grander scheme of things. "Adventurism" is limited to stuff that will pull people out of organising for years (or indefinitely) for less value than that person would have been performing smaller acts in the same time frame. The comm is literally c/antifascism and people are like "noooo don't do antifascism that would be adventurinomoooo"
:screm-a: aaaaaaa
g00d post
Thank you nazis should not feel safe all nazi shit should be forced into hiding through the knowledge that it will be destroyed otherwise.
They must not be allowed to normalise their presence in public. Memorials included. Do not give them an inch. Every inch that goes uncontested is an invitation to take another inch. Before you know it they've escalated hundreds of times with small enough little things to not get a true reprisal and they've become a far far harder beast to knock down.
I'm not advocating people do things that are high risk or will land them in prison, I'm simply stating that we should actively be encouraging people to take this kind of action because it's genuinely fucking easy to do.
We all need to show bigger teeth.
You don't think cops and prosecutors would throw the book at someone defacing/destroying a "war memorial"? This is over property most people don't even know about, too; it's not equivalent to punching a Nazi out in public.
However you view adventurism, "make it something worth the trouble" applies.
Taking down fascist shit is not adventurism. Stop calling it adventurism. This expansion of the term to include mundane things that people will not get caught for is just a suppression of direct actions that are small enough for the individual to take independently.
You are going to get in far more trouble for breaking a fascist's face, you should still do it.
Adventurism is is characterized by "[having no] stable or serious principles, programme, tactics, organisation, and no roots among the masses." A person or small group defacing some fascist memorial is the definition of adventurism -- where are the serious principles or program, the organization, the tactics to translate that action into something meaningful? Where are the roots among the masses for that person and a few folks they hope they can trust?
And again, I'm not saying to never do anything without the sign off of a large vanguard party. I'm saying make it something worth the trouble. If someone's really certain they won't get caught defacing this shit, then it's no trouble, so go right ahead. But no one thinks they'll get caught, so if you're going to gamble, at least do it with something that matters more.
Surprisingly, this isn't always the case. It depends on the jurisdiction, but the penalties for vandalism can jump pretty high if the damage is expensive enough or if you're damaging a memorial (I know at least one state makes the latter a felony). A sucker punch Richard Spencer-style is generally a misdemeanor. The sucker punch is probably going to play better for you in front of a jury, too.
It really doesn't, it depends on the fascist's willingness to pursue it vs their extreme embarassment for having the cops deal with it because they got their ass beat by the (supposedly) weak feminine soy people. Our ability to get away with it relies entirely on the shame of the fascists, unless of course they'd been committing assaults too at the time in which case they may not try their luck with law enforcement for that reason instead.
Punching someone in the face isn't a jury case in most of the world. Certainly not over here. Holding jury cases for every instance of assault would be completely overwhelming there's 2 or 3 per weekend night per nightclub. Do you really do jury cases for things like this over there?
We've been trying. Unfortunately, defacing a Nazi monument is a hate crime in Canada. :agony-deep:
ffs...