Tons of positive reviews for Tears of the Kingdom have come out, favorably comparing it to BotW. But, I haven't seen much said on improving over BotW, other than 'it has more stuff'.
I know the simple solution is 'just pirate it and try it out', which, yeah, I might do eventually when I have time, but I've emulated enough to know that it's not always super easy to get everything working right.
Regardless, I felt that BotW was too big and aimless, with an open world that felt empty. The people that like BotW seem to 'make their own fun', and use physics to solve open ended problems. Which, sounds fun, but my fun was kinda killed by the feeling that nothing had a point. I just felt like most of the 'rewards' were just weapons that would break (which, I don't even mind weapon durability, but it did make weapons as a reward suck), or collectables that had minimal impact on the game. Only a few set pieces did much for me, and they were very few and far between. Overall, played about a dozen hours, then went and killed Ganon, to little fanfare.
And, if Tears of the Kingdom is strictly BotW 2, I'd rather not 'waste' another 12 hours. But, I've heard some people say they added dungeons, and more direction to the game. Any opinions from you all?
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When BOTW was in development, the dominant feeling among the Zelda fanbase was that it was a stale formula that hadn't been meaningfully changed in many years. That feeling was also the impetus for the item rental mechanics in A Link Between Worlds - people wanted to recapture the "do it in any order" feeling that they felt the older games had which had been lost by the time Skyward Sword rolled around.
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I get a lot of people liked the old 3D zelda games, but I just don't get it. I never found them particularly fun compared to the 2D zeldas. I thought BotW ruled though. Different strokes I suppose. Not really sure I understand the "mindless collecting and loot" because BotW wasn't really a loot game? The primary complaint from OP is that it didn't have the hallmarks of a loot game lol.
I dunno, the korok seeds, the need to collect a buncha random stuff to make food and potions, the need to collect a buncha random stuff to upgrade armor, the need to hoard a buncha random weapons and shields because they all break...
I've never liked 'loot' systems, and while I wouldn't really call BotW a 'real' loot game, like say Diablo, or a lot of Ubisoft games with their poorly-thought-out crafting systems, I do still think BotW leans that way a bit.
As opposed to the 'classic' Zelda style, both 2d and 3d, where you don't get much 'loot', but everything you get is impactful (aside from like, pieces of heart). If there's only 3 swords in the game, each a big upgrade in damage, they're a lot more impactful, or stuff like the hookshot, that enables you to move around in new ways, while still being a niche weapon. Not to say every 'classic' Zelda item is awesome, or that the old formula is perfect and can't ever be changed.
But BotW is one of the first Zelda games to not use items as the core progression mechanic. But the 'classic' 3D zelda games use the same core 'game structure' as the 2D zelda games (not that you need to like the change; 2d to 3d changes a lot about game feel).
Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. I get why people who liked 3D zeldas would be disappointed with it spelled out like that.
And yeah my biggest complaint going from 2D -> 3D is that the 3D games always felt slower and more linear to me. Windwaker was one of the few ones I liked. I know the "freedom" in a 2D zelda is mostly a mirage, but it had a sense of exploration that I just never got out of any of the other 3D zeldas. That's just me though, I accept that I'm weird. I know people love Ocarina and Twilight Princess, they just aren't for me.
i totally get you! i love most of the 2D games and also had so much fun in BotW but i could never get through the old 3D games like Ocarina without tiring
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The disposable weapon system is annoying in the moment but it's absolutely vital to the game. It would be such a goddamn piece of shit game without it.
The reason they did this is to allow you to go literally anywhere and kill anything, as long as you're good enough. You can hunt down kill a white Lynel with like 4 hearts if you just don't get hit. That gives you one of his insane weapons. It's got like 60 or 70 damage vs. 4 damage for like a rusty iron sword.
In any other game, if you did that, you've just completed 5% of the game and made the next 90% of the game absolutely fucking boring until you hit the final 5% of the game. This is why many RPGs have even worse systems like level gating items, or they just let you have it and then none of the items you ever get are any good until the game is almost over. Or the high level enemies take literally millions of hits to defeat when you're low level, so you have to just walk away.
So you wouldn't have to learn anything about enemies or bosses because you just walk up and one-tap them for most of the rest of the game. Every quest reward would be garbage, etc .
It is funny how 'weapons breaking' feels so bad, when, from a mechanics perspective, its the same type of formula that DOOM uses.
Yeah, a broken weapon is 'deleted' from your inventory, but kill more of that foe, and you'll get a fresh one. Same thing with the stronger DOOM weapons; killing certain foes always drops ammo for your strong but limited ammo weapons. A Rocket Launcher with no Rockets is just as useless as a broken BotW weapon.
While I don't really like the weapon system in BotW, I also know its necessary to the game structure it chose, and its very much not part of the list of design choices that I think makes the game feel empty and boring to me.
absolutely a loot game
edit: oh but it's ok you only need 400 something to max out all your inventory space
Yeah, I mean if you don't like the weapon system, then you're not gonna think the korok seeds are super useful so I guess I get it. I loved the weapon system, so the korok seeds were like gold to me.
Fully agree.
And, I'm not anti-open world. Zelda has always had open worlds, back to literally the first game. But, it had more of a 'Medroidvania-esque' progression, more focused on unlocking abilities to unlock areas, often in a not-strictly-linear order.
But, the newer 'open world' style of go anywhere and do anything, has issues, and I think a lot of open world games would be better with semi-closed in levels. That's definitely how I felt about Elden Ring, a game I really liked overall, but I felt that the open world aspect was a negative.
And, I don't think the 'semi open 3d world' style they had, going back to Ocarina, had anything wrong with it. I can't fault Nintendo for wanting to do something different, but a lot of their innovations in open world have been kinda flops. Wind Waker was good, but the boating sections sucked overall (though, the speed sails, and cutting down the triforce quest in the remakes makes it a lot more bearable.) Skyward Sword's flying sections were another cool idea that mostly sucked in execution.
And, I feel like BotW is the same. Just, a big blank 'ocean/sky' of not much in it. But, unlike WW or SS, there weren't really even any significant sections other than the Wild. Breath of the Wild had a ton of innovations, but the world is just so pointless. It never felt like I made progress. It never felt like there was any real reason not to just go and kill Ganon asap.
What are some Zelda titles one should try? BotW was the first I've played of the series in a very long time.
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Seconding Twilight Princess. The gameplay and basic "enter current dungeon, get item halfway, beat current dungeon and get access to next dungeon with new item" loop are the same as prior 3D Zeldas. But it does it in an incredibly polished way. The story is arguably the best in any Zelda game, and that's largely due to the wonderful and memorable characters in it. Especially Midna.
I want to like Wind Waker. I do like the visual style, and the gameplay and music are fantastic. But there's just a little too much sailing-through-nothing for my tastes.
Twilight Princess is kinda in a funny spot. FWIW, I do like it, but its a bit contentious, put at a spot where the 'zelda formula' was somewhat regarded as 'getting stale'. And while the game does have a lot of great items and moments, there some midgame grind to clear out the darkness spots, and a few of its items are some of the worst offends of the 'bad zelda items' type design; where they're extremely situational, and mostly just there to solve puzzles (notably the gear, and to a lesser extent the ball-and-chain).
But also, the good party of the game are absolutely enough to carry it for me, so I think it works, but I get the complaints about it.