Tons of positive reviews for Tears of the Kingdom have come out, favorably comparing it to BotW. But, I haven't seen much said on improving over BotW, other than 'it has more stuff'.
I know the simple solution is 'just pirate it and try it out', which, yeah, I might do eventually when I have time, but I've emulated enough to know that it's not always super easy to get everything working right.
Regardless, I felt that BotW was too big and aimless, with an open world that felt empty. The people that like BotW seem to 'make their own fun', and use physics to solve open ended problems. Which, sounds fun, but my fun was kinda killed by the feeling that nothing had a point. I just felt like most of the 'rewards' were just weapons that would break (which, I don't even mind weapon durability, but it did make weapons as a reward suck), or collectables that had minimal impact on the game. Only a few set pieces did much for me, and they were very few and far between. Overall, played about a dozen hours, then went and killed Ganon, to little fanfare.
And, if Tears of the Kingdom is strictly BotW 2, I'd rather not 'waste' another 12 hours. But, I've heard some people say they added dungeons, and more direction to the game. Any opinions from you all?
I saw exactly 30 seconds of gameplay and can confidently say that Link's eating animation looks cute :stalin-approval:
We can always count on our resident Obama to inform us on cute boys :meow-melt:
weapons break?
not going to play it that's dogshit
fuck you whatever nerd is about to type some UM AKSHUALLY IT'S THE BEST MECHANIC EVER bullshit
Oh, so if the ghosts touch me I die? Not gonna play Pacman it's dogshit.
Im not the one who wants to collect 10000 replicas of the same papier mache weapons because it's fun to collect literal garbage
as someone who quit BotW after one divine beast and has [legally obtained :owl-wink: ] Tears of the Kingdom and has been playing it over the last two weeks:
Let me preface my more detailed review with a disclaimer admitting a bit of my character first: I loved Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts, completely unironically. I had a fucking blast playing through all of the singleplayer vehicle challenges making the biggest physics-based abominations, and probably spent dozens or hundreds of hours in multiplayer building stupid vehicles and shit with my friends
Now, with that disclaimer out of the way, TotK is actually pretty good. For me, the average open world game is largely devoid of interesting content and for TotK, this remains true. However, because the game constantly gives you magitek jet fighter plane monster truck parts 24/7, you never really have to actually engage with those empty expanses. Unlike the first game where 75% of my time spent playing was watching my stamina bar dry up like a forgotten sponge as I climbed the same copy-pasted cliffs over and over again, in this game 75% of my time spent playing is goofily gluing random shit together and attaching rockets to it, just so I don't have to actually traverse any terrain lmao
The physics based vehicle shit also solves a problem you were talking about: meaningful rewards. While they still throw random fucking weapons at you in chests, they also throw a lot of vehicle parts, which are much more fun to use and deal with than another -1 Shitstick of Wood that breaks in two hits. And to also go on, shrines are more fun than in the previous game for twofold reasons: They give you all of your sheikah slate abilities inside the tutorial this time, allowing them to craft every shrine puzzle around like five abilities that are all unique and fun to use, and the shrines are based more on their physics engine this time, with a lot of solutions for shrines being "build a hook to use this zipline with" and other cooler shit
I've completed 3/5 of the game's equivalents to divine beasts, and all of them have been more fun and most importantly more environmentally unique than the last game. TotK has essentially a hybrid of the old zelda formula and the divine beasts from BotW as its "dungeons". You do get a new ability that is integral to completing the dungeon, but most of the time that ability is used to "play hide and seek as to where you can use your new ability on things to complete the dungeon" more than traditional puzzles. There are puzzles, but most of them just use the same five physics abilities you've had from the start of the game, they are fun but they don't follow the "use your cool new hookshot on things in unique ways" formula. This game pretty much feels like a more complete game that BotW was a beta test for.
also don't fuckin buy the game lmao nintendo sucks balls and it's 70 dollars?? wtf
tl;dr, new vehicle physics shit fun, they allow you to skip most open world boring snooze shit, new dungeons are a little better than divine beasts, but still not really like the original dungeons of old
a great formula they had tweaked over the years
When BOTW was in development, the dominant feeling among the Zelda fanbase was that it was a stale formula that hadn't been meaningfully changed in many years. That feeling was also the impetus for the item rental mechanics in A Link Between Worlds - people wanted to recapture the "do it in any order" feeling that they felt the older games had which had been lost by the time Skyward Sword rolled around.
I get a lot of people liked the old 3D zelda games, but I just don't get it. I never found them particularly fun compared to the 2D zeldas. I thought BotW ruled though. Different strokes I suppose. Not really sure I understand the "mindless collecting and loot" because BotW wasn't really a loot game? The primary complaint from OP is that it didn't have the hallmarks of a loot game lol.
I dunno, the korok seeds, the need to collect a buncha random stuff to make food and potions, the need to collect a buncha random stuff to upgrade armor, the need to hoard a buncha random weapons and shields because they all break...
I've never liked 'loot' systems, and while I wouldn't really call BotW a 'real' loot game, like say Diablo, or a lot of Ubisoft games with their poorly-thought-out crafting systems, I do still think BotW leans that way a bit.
As opposed to the 'classic' Zelda style, both 2d and 3d, where you don't get much 'loot', but everything you get is impactful (aside from like, pieces of heart). If there's only 3 swords in the game, each a big upgrade in damage, they're a lot more impactful, or stuff like the hookshot, that enables you to move around in new ways, while still being a niche weapon. Not to say every 'classic' Zelda item is awesome, or that the old formula is perfect and can't ever be changed.
But BotW is one of the first Zelda games to not use items as the core progression mechanic. But the 'classic' 3D zelda games use the same core 'game structure' as the 2D zelda games (not that you need to like the change; 2d to 3d changes a lot about game feel).
Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. I get why people who liked 3D zeldas would be disappointed with it spelled out like that.
And yeah my biggest complaint going from 2D -> 3D is that the 3D games always felt slower and more linear to me. Windwaker was one of the few ones I liked. I know the "freedom" in a 2D zelda is mostly a mirage, but it had a sense of exploration that I just never got out of any of the other 3D zeldas. That's just me though, I accept that I'm weird. I know people love Ocarina and Twilight Princess, they just aren't for me.
i totally get you! i love most of the 2D games and also had so much fun in BotW but i could never get through the old 3D games like Ocarina without tiring
The disposable weapon system is annoying in the moment but it's absolutely vital to the game. It would be such a goddamn piece of shit game without it.
The reason they did this is to allow you to go literally anywhere and kill anything, as long as you're good enough. You can hunt down kill a white Lynel with like 4 hearts if you just don't get hit. That gives you one of his insane weapons. It's got like 60 or 70 damage vs. 4 damage for like a rusty iron sword.
In any other game, if you did that, you've just completed 5% of the game and made the next 90% of the game absolutely fucking boring until you hit the final 5% of the game. This is why many RPGs have even worse systems like level gating items, or they just let you have it and then none of the items you ever get are any good until the game is almost over. Or the high level enemies take literally millions of hits to defeat when you're low level, so you have to just walk away.
So you wouldn't have to learn anything about enemies or bosses because you just walk up and one-tap them for most of the rest of the game. Every quest reward would be garbage, etc .
It is funny how 'weapons breaking' feels so bad, when, from a mechanics perspective, its the same type of formula that DOOM uses.
Yeah, a broken weapon is 'deleted' from your inventory, but kill more of that foe, and you'll get a fresh one. Same thing with the stronger DOOM weapons; killing certain foes always drops ammo for your strong but limited ammo weapons. A Rocket Launcher with no Rockets is just as useless as a broken BotW weapon.
While I don't really like the weapon system in BotW, I also know its necessary to the game structure it chose, and its very much not part of the list of design choices that I think makes the game feel empty and boring to me.
900 korok seeds
absolutely a loot game
edit: oh but it's ok you only need 400 something to max out all your inventory space
Yeah, I mean if you don't like the weapon system, then you're not gonna think the korok seeds are super useful so I guess I get it. I loved the weapon system, so the korok seeds were like gold to me.
Fully agree.
And, I'm not anti-open world. Zelda has always had open worlds, back to literally the first game. But, it had more of a 'Medroidvania-esque' progression, more focused on unlocking abilities to unlock areas, often in a not-strictly-linear order.
But, the newer 'open world' style of go anywhere and do anything, has issues, and I think a lot of open world games would be better with semi-closed in levels. That's definitely how I felt about Elden Ring, a game I really liked overall, but I felt that the open world aspect was a negative.
And, I don't think the 'semi open 3d world' style they had, going back to Ocarina, had anything wrong with it. I can't fault Nintendo for wanting to do something different, but a lot of their innovations in open world have been kinda flops. Wind Waker was good, but the boating sections sucked overall (though, the speed sails, and cutting down the triforce quest in the remakes makes it a lot more bearable.) Skyward Sword's flying sections were another cool idea that mostly sucked in execution.
And, I feel like BotW is the same. Just, a big blank 'ocean/sky' of not much in it. But, unlike WW or SS, there weren't really even any significant sections other than the Wild. Breath of the Wild had a ton of innovations, but the world is just so pointless. It never felt like I made progress. It never felt like there was any real reason not to just go and kill Ganon asap.
What are some Zelda titles one should try? BotW was the first I've played of the series in a very long time.
Seconding Twilight Princess. The gameplay and basic "enter current dungeon, get item halfway, beat current dungeon and get access to next dungeon with new item" loop are the same as prior 3D Zeldas. But it does it in an incredibly polished way. The story is arguably the best in any Zelda game, and that's largely due to the wonderful and memorable characters in it. Especially Midna.
I want to like Wind Waker. I do like the visual style, and the gameplay and music are fantastic. But there's just a little too much sailing-through-nothing for my tastes.
Twilight Princess is kinda in a funny spot. FWIW, I do like it, but its a bit contentious, put at a spot where the 'zelda formula' was somewhat regarded as 'getting stale'. And while the game does have a lot of great items and moments, there some midgame grind to clear out the darkness spots, and a few of its items are some of the worst offends of the 'bad zelda items' type design; where they're extremely situational, and mostly just there to solve puzzles (notably the gear, and to a lesser extent the ball-and-chain).
But also, the good party of the game are absolutely enough to carry it for me, so I think it works, but I get the complaints about it.
Unless the dungeons or cavern or whatever are absolutely amazing, it's probably not worth your time. I was mixed on BotW, made it 4 hours into this one before deciding it was just "BotW again" but with lamer powers and quit. Shrines are still repetitive and all look the same, overworld was the same boring one as before dependent on too many collectables. Gameplay loop didn't feel any different
Cool. It looked like, for all the extra bells and whistles, that the 'core gameplay loop' may have been the same, and regardless of any other improvements or add-ons, the 'core gamepley' style of BotW just didn't appeal to me, at all.
But also, the hype train is real, and a lot of people love it, so I feel like I'm second guessing my own tastes sometimes lol, and thinking 'maybe this time it'll be fun!'
If you didn't like BoTW you will not like this game. I'm probably 50 hours in and it's BoTW but more- the game. I jokingly refer to it as "Better of the Wild" when people ask me to assess it. Whether that appeals to someone or not is obviously personal preference, but you will not like this game if you didn't already enjoy BoTW.
[Dungeons]
- The dungeons are elemental-themed divine beasts in design despite being temples- they're not the linear dungeons of old.
[Exploration]
- Exploration is better because there are more things to do that feed into the "increase your hearts or stamina" gameplay loop alongside shrines instead of simply "here's another x weapon that may be worse than what you already have"
[Durability]
- The weapon fuse system also means monster drops are more useful rather than just rupee sinks to purchase things.
Also glad to answer any spoiler-free question about the game that you or anyone else may have.
I have a question about TOTK: are there any mandatory one-hit-kill stealth dungeons like the desert thieves' base in BOTW? And if there are, can I just ancient-arrow (or the equivalent) everything in sight to brute force my way through as I did in BOTW?
I unfortunately don't have an answer to this question yet as I haven't run into anything like it if it's in the game.
I'm gonna do the :reddit-logo: thing and say "I loved BoTW, but" yeah if you didn't like BotW, you're not gonna like this. I don't agree with any of your complaints, but I'm not here to convince you of anything.
Yeah, I'm not really trying to be 'fair' to the game, but rather explain what didn't work for me. I can see the positives to the game, and I get why it would be appealing, so I'm not here to call it 'objectively bad'. And, I'm glad for people that do like it. But, very little worked for me in the game.
I did like the combat, and the one set-piece that worked for me was the lighting dragon bit in the rainy lands. But, the 'glue' of the open world to 'play around in' just bored me to death, and the few moments I liked were pretty sparse. And while the combat is fun, it wasn't something I wanted to do over and over again for hours.
I'm not far enough in to super judge it, but yeah I just don't think you'll be into TotK. It's definitely a game built for people who love BotW. Different strokes for different folks and all that. BotW and TotK just make me feel a childlike wonder that I haven't really felt since I was gaming in the 90s, so I'm not really speaking objectively on it either. But I do enjoy it! I'm sorry you didn't have a great time with BotW, I hope you have fun with some of the other games coming out this year at least.
Lol, I'm sure I will. Mostly, I made this post as a kind of "Please talk me off the hype train, I got on it last time and was burned".
Probably the only AAA game I've liked so far this year is Returnal, but I've been enjoying a lot of indie stuff, which is where I've drifted lately anyway.
Hell yeah. Any standout indies you've played this year?
I checked out Ghost Song and had a hell of a time. Nothing incredible about it, but it's a fun metroidvania with style.
Ghost Song
Hadn't heard anything about this game, but that looks cool, I'll add it to my list!
Revita's by far my biggest game, hours wise, this year. Been loving Barotrauma with friends. Against the Storm is great to do a run here and there, even after unlocking everything. And La-Mulana is still one of my favorite games of all time, been playing randomizer runs for it a bit (but oof is it a hard randomizer to learn!)
BOTW was a tech demo with some Zelda paint on top. It was a really good tech demo, but that's all it was.
I played BOTW for an hour or so, TOTK seemed like the same thing after a few mins so I also deleted it.
i forget where but i saw a ragebait 6/10 from somebody who didn't like the other one
I'd also like to see a more critical review because the game is fucking expensive, and my partner wants it as a gift and would like to play it on the switch and not my pc lol
Best deal you'll get on a legit copy is buying that 2 for $100 voucher thing with an eshop gift card that is occasionally on sale lol. Still not cheap.
I played through botw and was left feeling a bit empty by it, but I heard there was a big improvement in the blindspots so I took the risk and bought it. At the very least, it will be pretty good in regards to enjoyable controls.
I'll report back when I start er up at the end of the work day.
