• autismdragon [he/him, they/them]
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    edit-2
    1 year ago

    How is 'Cooperation is good and humans can and should do it' "bourgeois morality"? Its literally the opposite? The bourgeoise want us fighting for scraps right? Or am I misunderstanding you because i'm not going to lie I couldnt really parse this post.

    Like idk I'm sorry but "humans are not naturally selfish, thats a bourgeoise lie and a result of capitalist socialization" was one of the first messages that brought me over to being a communist so I'm against dismantling it because it worked so well for me. It seems like good messaging.

    I'm very baby brained though so maybe there's some higher order shit I dont understand going on because again, I literally did not understand your post here lol.

    • MerryChristmas [any]
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      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Actually, let me get a redo - I think I can do better than that last one. You don't even have to read this if you don't want to but I'm enjoying trying to explain my thoughts on this in a way that makes sense to a fellow autistic person:

      Engaging in selfishness alone is a high risk behavior. When you exploit the fellow members of your tribe, you risk ostracization for minimal reward. Selfishness occurs in all species to varying degrees, but this explains why ruthless selfishness is not a common trait in the most evolutionarily successful species.

      Let's say you're in an early modern human tribe. While engaging in selfish behavior alone is risky, engaging in selfishness as a group reduces that risk - every person you add to your group decreases the risk of ostracization or retaliation and reduces the numbers that could oppose you. There is less reward, though, unless:

      A.) You come to dominate the group, and the rest of the tribe returns to its initial state with a little less resources to go around,

      or

      B.) You work together with the group to take more reward than you were previously taking. The risk increases the more you take, but it is still lower by nature of the power in your group's growing numbers.

      Option A leads to the cycle repeating on a smaller scale within the selfish group while simultaneously encouraging the emergence of new selfish groups to compete with. That leads us to our present point in human history. Power struggles within power struggles within power struggles.

      Option B leads to two possibilities:

      B1.) A return to the original state as the roles of the groups come to be reversed, exploiter becoming exploited, leading us again to the cycle repeating.

      Some people will switch groups, slightly altering the way this dynamic plays out. Ultimately the most ruthless still come to dominate unless we reach...

      B2.) A return to our initial state of total equality with the newfound tools born from generations of struggle resulting from the conflict of the self and the other.

      And so history ping-pongs back and forth, briefly fractalizing as empires rise and fall, until we arive at option B2, communism.

        • MerryChristmas [any]
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          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Awesome! I've only really tried to talk about this stuff with my neurotypical family so it's nice to be able to lay it out like it is in my mind.

          I ultimately agree with you on the liberatory power of altruism, but I guess my main premise is that it might be easier to find a framework that transforms self-directed behavior into collective action than to actually convince people that they should be less selfish. The people who think like we do are probably already on our side to the degree that they feel materially safe to side with us.

    • MerryChristmas [any]
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      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Sorry, I'm just exploring these concepts myself so I'm getting a little caught up in my own thoughts here as I write.

      What I'm getting at is that selfishness is just a word. The thing it describes is acting on your desires at the expense of another, exploitation. Exploitation is a necessary part of survival until you've reached a higher form - homeostasis, stability, a collective of individuals acting in total voluntary cooperation and guided by a shared sense of purpose.

      But until then, you have to exploit someone to survive. Try to work with people who share your material interests - the proletariat - to ensure you're exploiting the right others - the bourgeoisie - until there are no others, just one us. That is our sole imperative as communists. And while "selfishness" is a crude way to define all of this, it is a lot easier to convince someone to reframe the way they view their self-interest than it is to convince them to act against it.

      If someone believes their self-interest lies with a particular ideology, the first step isn't to argue about whether they should follow their self-interest - that will only trigger defensive behavior. You need to convince them that their self-interest can better be served with a different ideology. Once you've got them on Marxism then you can do the hard work of educating them, but you need to get them on the hook first.

      And I apologize for writing another essay. I'm working on getting this more concise.