https://twitter.com/MarioEmblem_2/status/1676009845235896320

    • culpritus [any]
      ·
      2 years ago

      If you can prove it, it isn't qualia, right?

      • NormalHumanLikeYou [undecided]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Qualia are not physical measurements of a physical phenomena, it is how it subjectively 'feels' to experience the perception (measurement) of a phenomena. John Locke's inverted spectrum thought experiment is not necessarily intended to be a falsifiable claim about a real phenomena, but a simplified explanation of an example in differences between qualia between people. Its not a particularly good example, but he was not necessarily trying to claim that that specific case literally happened or will happen (as far as i know). A better example would be the difference between experiencing a view of something red, and the mathematically modelled and quantified wavelength of the light in nanometers. the mathematical model and empirical data does not tell you anything about what it feels like to see the red color, it only tells you what its quantifiable characteristics are, modelled in the form of numbers and symbols. the data alone cannot tell you anything qualitative, you have to at least ask other subjects like yourself to confirm such things. I do think it is reasonable that humans generally see colors similarly, for regardless of your opinion on the problem of consciousness, our experiences are highly correlated to various quantifiable physical phenomena in our bodies. the problem is that there has yet to be established a causal link between physical phenomena and subjective experience.

        • culpritus [any]
          ·
          2 years ago

          the problem is that there has yet to be established a causal link between physical phenomena and subjective experience

          Qualia is inherently non-falsifiable.

          • NormalHumanLikeYou [undecided]
            ·
            2 years ago

            it is a logical concept, not an empirical physical phenomena. it is as non falsifiable as the number 3 or the concept of 'Up'

              • quarrk [he/him]
                ·
                edit-2
                2 years ago

                It simply a fact which forces one to consider the objectivity of their knowledge. The transmutation of subjective things into objective things (ideology being the most developed example) is the basis of many incorrect analyses, not least of which are those of the political economists whom Marx criticized and spent his career debunking.

                • culpritus [any]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  Dialectical materialism doesn't rely on qualia existing as far as I'm aware though.

                  • quarrk [he/him]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    Dialectics as first expounded by Hegel is an attempt to eliminate "one-sidedness" or limited subjective understanding, through contemplation of things not merely for what they are in isolation, but in all of their interrelations too. When looking at something from different perspectives, there are apparent contradictions i.e. exclusive "truths" between the perspectives. Sublation is the overcoming of these contradictions in a way that preserves each side, as they are in fact both true, only limited.

                    Dialectical materialism as a science focuses on objective truths because of its philosophy which recognizes the limitation of any given perspective and the "objective" facts recognized by each perspective.

                    All of that is a long-winded way to say, yes, both Hegelian and Marxian dialectic rely on qualia, although not necessarily by that name.

                  • space_comrade [he/him]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    2 years ago

                    Lmao what? It absolutely does. A core component of diamat is "qualitative change". Qualities exist only in our consciousness, they're a tag our minds attach to specific phenomena of the world, and our minds are composed of qualia.

                    Marx also warned against "vulgar materialism" which ignores the specific character of consciousness. "Vulgar materialism" is nowadays called "physicalism".

                • culpritus [any]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  but definitionally it can't be proven, so must be fun to have job security I guess

                  • NormalHumanLikeYou [undecided]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    i'm not a professional philosopher or an academic, but i think they do sometimes do important work. are you one of those people that thinks any academic field outside of STEM is worthless?

        • culpritus [any]
          ·
          2 years ago

          According to a 2020 PhilPapers survey, 29.72% of philosophers surveyed believe that the hard problem does not exist, while 62.42% of philosophers surveyed believe that the hard problem is a genuine problem.

          It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It