https://twitter.com/MarioEmblem_2/status/1676009845235896320

  • quarrk [he/him]
    ·
    1 year ago

    Qualia are not the mystical Hegelian shell Marx removed. For Hegel the starting point was the pure concept, while the point of Marx's materialism was to start from the material world as the dialectical object, because the material world is the objective basis of all concepts. The basic "form of working" (from your excerpt) is more or less identical between Marx and Hegel.

    The reason Marx emphasized materialism is precisely because concepts arise from subjective perception of the material world. Concepts do not exist independently; their existence is contingent on human perception of an objective, material reality. Therefore a concept like "freedom" does not exist in itself, it exists as a concept in the human mind which is conditioned by their limited perspective.

    Marx analyzed objective phenomena in order to understand the material world. It is not necessary, in fact it is impossible, to reconcile qualia except to the extent that they affect the material world. Two people can experience 400 nm light differently and consistently agree that it is blue, therefore experience has no material effect as long as it is consistent.

    • culpritus [any]
      ·
      1 year ago

      It is not necessary, in fact it is impossible, to reconcile qualia except to the extent that they affect the material world.

      Thanks for conceding I guess.

      • quarrk [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        If you read that as a concession then you will find the same concession several posts ago.

        If qualia do not affect the material world, then it is not possible to say for certain (as you have) that two people have identical experience of color. The fact that qualia do not affect the material world was the starting point not the conclusion.

        • culpritus [any]
          ·
          1 year ago

          This time with extra emphasis:

          "The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."

          • quarrk [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            Correct, if this is your view then you should not have started the thread complaining about other people's interpretations.

            • culpritus [any]
              ·
              1 year ago

              If you can prove it, it isn't qualia, right?

              TIL asking a yes or no question is complaining.

                • culpritus [any]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  it is not possible to say for certain (as you have) that two people have identical experience of color.

                  I must have missed that part.