I believe it's because his struggle is meaningless and has no value beyond what Sisyphus makes of it. He can let boulder pushing make him hopeless or happy or whatever else he wants, since there is no morality inherent in it.
Similarly, humans have to do certain things to live, but what you make of the human experience is entirely up to you. There is no "correct" answer built into the universe; it just is.
This is the guy who wrote “There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide”, so probably not the only place his philosophy is not a reflection of average human psychology
You're still walking. For whatever reason you haven't killed yourself, though you have the option to do so at any moment. That's the "happiness" being discussed, not the emotion of joy. For whatever reason Sisyphus chooses to roll his boulder instead of opting out. For whatever reason you're still walking around. You and Sisyphus both continue to find some kind of meaning in continuing to exist, and in continuing to suffer.
, though you have the option to do so at any moment
nah i reject that. maybe in i could apply for MAID but I have an intense aversion to causing myself pain or distress and i did not choose to have that. I'm physiologically capable of doing lots of things that I don't do, sure, but i can't override that aversion to pain or the intertwined risk of becoming much much worse off that I currently am and I don't think that's a free choice or has any business being called "happiness".
I mean, it's generally agreed on by most philosophers that the ignorant and the foolish live a blessed existence. The average human never wrestles with philosophical questions, serious or otherwise. Or if they do they do it very quietly in private.
That's not what Camus is saying. It's not about literally feeling joy or sorrow. Happiness in this case refers to Sisyphus finding meaning and purpose in his suffering. Because suffering is all there is. You can find a reason to endure it, or you can kill yourself. Those are the only options. Some people don't realize that because they're fools who have never observed the reality they live in, but that doesn't change the bare facts of the matter.
All life is is choosing what you want to do with the time between now and the moment you die.
I just don't think Sisyphus is a good example because:
Sisyphus wasn't cursed by the gods, but by the Olympians, a particular pantheon of gods who overthrew a previous pantheon of gods called the Titans. There's no real reason why the curse would still be in effect if the Olympians get overthrown by a new pantheon of gods.
Sisyphus could have someone else push the boulder to the top and free him. He isn't destined to be stuck in Tartarus forever just because the Olympians said so. The Olympians also said Prometheus was condemned for eternity to have his liver ripped out by a giant eagle, but that didn't last long because he was freed by Hercules.
Sisyphus didn't have to push the boulder. I don't think there was actually anything that forced Sisyphus to push the boulder. He only keeps on pushing it because he wants to gtfo Tartarus.
It doesn't really matter in the context of Sisyphus being happy or not. There could be any number of reasons for his fate, things going on in the rest of the world, etc., but he's pushing a boulder all the same.
I would guess that Camus is probably also applying a Western Christian lens on the mythology - that is, Sisyphus' fate is an eternal punishment that he must continue to do forever. By making this thread, you have probably put more thought into the context of the analogy than he did.
1.) This isn't a Joss Whedon movie. It's a thought experiment.
No he can't. That's not part of the story. in the story there's only Sisyphus, the mountain, and the boulder. That's it. It's a thought experiment, not the Marvel Expanded Universe. And Herakles can rescue Prometheus because he's Herakles. He can do whatever he wants. If he wanted to arm wrestle my dad Herakles would win even though my dad is the best at arm wrestling.
3.) Yea that's the point. There's nothing forcing you to do anything. You can just lay down and die. No one can stop you. Sisyphus keeps pushing the boulder because for whatever reason he chooses to. And that's all there is. You can push the boulder, you can let that fucker roll down hill, you can have a wank on the mountain. No choice is better than any other, no choice has inherent moral weight. There's no one who can judge you or tell you what you ought or ought not do. Heaven is empty, God is absent, there's just us, or specifically there's just you. And in the time between now and when you die you've gotta figure out what you want to do.
I believe it's because his struggle is meaningless and has no value beyond what Sisyphus makes of it. He can let boulder pushing make him hopeless or happy or whatever else he wants, since there is no morality inherent in it.
Similarly, humans have to do certain things to live, but what you make of the human experience is entirely up to you. There is no "correct" answer built into the universe; it just is.
big if true. that seems like a horrible misassumption of human psychology
This is the guy who wrote “There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide”, so probably not the only place his philosophy is not a reflection of average human psychology
yeah i'm a walking refutation of that particular idea
You're still walking. For whatever reason you haven't killed yourself, though you have the option to do so at any moment. That's the "happiness" being discussed, not the emotion of joy. For whatever reason Sisyphus chooses to roll his boulder instead of opting out. For whatever reason you're still walking around. You and Sisyphus both continue to find some kind of meaning in continuing to exist, and in continuing to suffer.
nah i reject that. maybe in
i could apply for MAID but I have an intense aversion to causing myself pain or distress and i did not choose to have that. I'm physiologically capable of doing lots of things that I don't do, sure, but i can't override that aversion to pain or the intertwined risk of becoming much much worse off that I currently am and I don't think that's a free choice or has any business being called "happiness".
I mean, it's generally agreed on by most philosophers that the ignorant and the foolish live a blessed existence. The average human never wrestles with philosophical questions, serious or otherwise. Or if they do they do it very quietly in private.
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I don't agree with it either, not a big fan of the "grin and bear it" psychologies in general
That's not what Camus is saying. It's not about literally feeling joy or sorrow. Happiness in this case refers to Sisyphus finding meaning and purpose in his suffering. Because suffering is all there is. You can find a reason to endure it, or you can kill yourself. Those are the only options. Some people don't realize that because they're fools who have never observed the reality they live in, but that doesn't change the bare facts of the matter.
All life is is choosing what you want to do with the time between now and the moment you die.
I just don't think Sisyphus is a good example because:
Sisyphus wasn't cursed by the gods, but by the Olympians, a particular pantheon of gods who overthrew a previous pantheon of gods called the Titans. There's no real reason why the curse would still be in effect if the Olympians get overthrown by a new pantheon of gods.
Sisyphus could have someone else push the boulder to the top and free him. He isn't destined to be stuck in Tartarus forever just because the Olympians said so. The Olympians also said Prometheus was condemned for eternity to have his liver ripped out by a giant eagle, but that didn't last long because he was freed by Hercules.
Sisyphus didn't have to push the boulder. I don't think there was actually anything that forced Sisyphus to push the boulder. He only keeps on pushing it because he wants to gtfo Tartarus.
It doesn't really matter in the context of Sisyphus being happy or not. There could be any number of reasons for his fate, things going on in the rest of the world, etc., but he's pushing a boulder all the same.
I would guess that Camus is probably also applying a Western Christian lens on the mythology - that is, Sisyphus' fate is an eternal punishment that he must continue to do forever. By making this thread, you have probably put more thought into the context of the analogy than he did.
1.) This isn't a Joss Whedon movie. It's a thought experiment.
3.) Yea that's the point. There's nothing forcing you to do anything. You can just lay down and die. No one can stop you. Sisyphus keeps pushing the boulder because for whatever reason he chooses to. And that's all there is. You can push the boulder, you can let that fucker roll down hill, you can have a wank on the mountain. No choice is better than any other, no choice has inherent moral weight. There's no one who can judge you or tell you what you ought or ought not do. Heaven is empty, God is absent, there's just us, or specifically there's just you. And in the time between now and when you die you've gotta figure out what you want to do.