There's a passage in Settlers that uses the percentage of U.S. households that have basic appliances like refrigerators to make the labor aristocrat argument. I'm supposed to believe someone working a dead-end, low-wage job can't be radicalized because they have a fridge and a TV?
Super disingenuous way for frame the following text:
All statistics show that the amount of consumption in Euro-Amerikan society is staggering. Enough so that it establishes for the mass a certain culture. In the settler tradition today’s Euro-Amerikan culture is one of home-owning, with 68.4% of all settler households in 1979 owning their own home (up 50% from 1940). These households share a cornucopia of private electric appliances: 89.8% of all U.S. homes in 1979 had color TVs (watched an average of over 6 hours per day), 55% had air-conditioning, 77.3% had washing machines and 61% had clothes dryers, 43% had dishwashers, 52% had blenders and food processors, and so on. 1 ^ Much of the world’s health products are hoarded in the U.S., with, for example, one out of every three pairs of prescription eyeglasses in the world sold here.
In terms of the “basics,” the most characteristic for Euro-Amerikans is the automobile. In 1980 there were a total of 104.6 million cars on the road.
84.1% of all U.S. households had cars, with 36.6% having two or rnoreJ^ 1 Everyone says that owning automobiles is a “necessity,” without which transportation to work (83% drive to work), shopping, and childcare cannot be done.
(All in bold is my emphasis). Comrade, it's not just TVs and fridges. Engage with the text as it stands.
Come on. I read the book a few years ago; there's nothing disingenuous about correctly remembering it uses "a cornucopia of private electric appliances," among other items, to argue that poor white Americans are so well off they (generally) won't respond to radicalization. Bringing in the actual text is good for the discussion, but there's no reason to start accusing people of intentionally misrepresenting it.
Besides, I'm mostly questioning the conclusion here, not the facts it's drawn from. Of course living standards are higher in the U.S. than, for instance, Guatemala. But most Americans will never visit Guaremala or have more than a passing thought about living standards there, so how relevant is that disparity to whether I can radicalize a poor white American? If a politician from either major party told poor Americans they can't complain because poor people in other countries have it worse, we'd clown on that, and your poor American would compare their living standards to that of their boss and think it's nonsense, too. It's a bad argument.
I'm not seeing you self crit about taking a passage about a majority of whites owning homes and cars, and simplifying it to refrigerators and TVs, nor has your comment changed to reflect the accuracy of the text I demonstrated. I'm not hear to shame a fellow Marxist, but I hope that seeing the how facts suffer from you perspective might change your opinion.
If a politician from either major party told poor Americans they can't complain because poor people in other countries have it worse,
The book doesn't come close up stating this. Hexbear is filled with white ppl complaining about the state of affairs, and no one is doing this.
I'm mostly questioning the conclusion here
Your conclusion doesn't seem accurate, as I've pointed out
I'm not going to self crit over not remembering every part of a passage verbatim. The exact details of American living standards aren't what's important, anyway (which is why I'm not getting into the lack of comparison points; for instance, what percentage of black Americans own a car/drive to work?).
My criticism is that if you're poor relative to the people around you, that's far more of a factor in your radicalization potential than how much you have relative to people you hardly think about. Especially as the American version of poor still involves serious issues like housing instability, hunger, significant barriers to healthcare, etc.
"I refuse to engage with the substance of what you're saying until you edit a comment, no I don't care that you already acknowledged you did not remember the whole quote verbatim"
Debate pervert shit. You want to talk about self crit, start there.
Book doesn't say that, but OK
Super disingenuous way for frame the following text:
(All in bold is my emphasis). Comrade, it's not just TVs and fridges. Engage with the text as it stands.
Come on. I read the book a few years ago; there's nothing disingenuous about correctly remembering it uses "a cornucopia of private electric appliances," among other items, to argue that poor white Americans are so well off they (generally) won't respond to radicalization. Bringing in the actual text is good for the discussion, but there's no reason to start accusing people of intentionally misrepresenting it.
Besides, I'm mostly questioning the conclusion here, not the facts it's drawn from. Of course living standards are higher in the U.S. than, for instance, Guatemala. But most Americans will never visit Guaremala or have more than a passing thought about living standards there, so how relevant is that disparity to whether I can radicalize a poor white American? If a politician from either major party told poor Americans they can't complain because poor people in other countries have it worse, we'd clown on that, and your poor American would compare their living standards to that of their boss and think it's nonsense, too. It's a bad argument.
I'm not seeing you self crit about taking a passage about a majority of whites owning homes and cars, and simplifying it to refrigerators and TVs, nor has your comment changed to reflect the accuracy of the text I demonstrated. I'm not hear to shame a fellow Marxist, but I hope that seeing the how facts suffer from you perspective might change your opinion.
The book doesn't come close up stating this. Hexbear is filled with white ppl complaining about the state of affairs, and no one is doing this.
Your conclusion doesn't seem accurate, as I've pointed out
I'm not going to self crit over not remembering every part of a passage verbatim. The exact details of American living standards aren't what's important, anyway (which is why I'm not getting into the lack of comparison points; for instance, what percentage of black Americans own a car/drive to work?).
My criticism is that if you're poor relative to the people around you, that's far more of a factor in your radicalization potential than how much you have relative to people you hardly think about. Especially as the American version of poor still involves serious issues like housing instability, hunger, significant barriers to healthcare, etc.
I'm not engaging with you further until you at least edit your objectively wrong assessment about refrigerators and TVs in the book.
"I refuse to engage with the substance of what you're saying until you edit a comment, no I don't care that you already acknowledged you did not remember the whole quote verbatim"
Debate pervert shit. You want to talk about self crit, start there.
Disengage (FYI the Hexbear rule saying I'm done with this convo, pls don't continue it with me)