On lemmy.world I posted a comment on how liberals use 'tankie' as an invective to shut down dialogue and received tons of hateful replies. I tried to respond in a rational way to each. Someone's said 'get educated' I responded 'Im reading Norman Finkelstein's I'll burn that bridge when I get there' and tried to keep it civil.
They deleted every comment I made and banned me. Proving my point, they just want to shut down dialogue. Freedom of speech doesn't existing in those 'totalitarian' countries right? But in our 'enlightened' western countries we just delete you.
Go ahead liberals. Call me a tankie. See if I give one ten thousandth of a fuck. Literally such a low-tier insult. “Uhh its like… uh…you support this large cool looking machine that stopped Color Revolutions and was responsible for Liberating the Eastern Front during World War II” “Yea, I do😐” “😨”
Tankie means you approve when a communist state uses military/tanks against its own people... Not against a Nazi state. I would reconsider if you really want to wear that label with pride..
Tankie just means "any communist I don't like" at this point. Take your McCarthyism and complete ignorance about color revolutions elsewhere.
Nice definition of tankie! Got that from wish?
At what point does being clowned on by an entire instance spur self-reflection?
Look what people wrote as replies to my comment, look how the upvote downvote numbers are, think.
My key takeaway from this post is: people on lemmygrad say they are interested in discussion and all those other instances are oh so bad, because they block them or doenvote them or call them tankies, which people on lemmygrad interpret as slur.
At the same time, you get down voted to oblivion, when you even write the definition of tankies to someone, who calls himself one. People who are pride to be a tankies onLemmygrad: cherished People who criticise this in anyway: laught at.
And simultaneously everyone who calls anyone else except him self a tankie no matter the context is automatically a liberal, when Servers defederate them, they are all facists or love fascists
People making strawman arguments when I say in a discussion that I don't agree with Stalin ("ohhh so capitalism is sooo much better" - no, its not, and I didn't say that, I can disagree with capitalism and stlinism at the same time, go figure)
And people defending (literal) tankies get upvoted, people who don't get down voted.
This server has lost one of the strongest tools in material dialectic: (self-) critical thinking
I really hoped I would find interesting debates here, but this is a circlejerk
At what point will self reflection kick in? At what point t people in an echo chamber realise its one?
If you don't send tanks into hungary, the nazis will do pogroms and construct concentration camps there. Not sending tanks is inhumanly cruel.
I 100% agree, and tho I very much like Stalin(he’s my favorite writer) it doesn’t take a “Stalinist” to understand that Color Revolutions and Nazism need to be crushed for socialism to survive
Mathematician 1: 1+1=2 Mathematician 2: 1+1=2
Debatebro: Muh echo chamber!
Yeah, cause stating "tankie" means "every communist I don't like" is the only truth and like saying 1+1 =2
Also comparing societal questions to mathematical ones is totally unconcerning
/kappa
Marxism-Leninism is a branch of science. What I'm saying is that we all get the same results because that's how science works.
Everyone who has in interest in science knows that you can't prove opinions, but only facts. You can prove stuff like "capitalism is destroying the ecosystem" or "China masacered the Uigurs" you can't prove stuff like "Stalin was right" or "the bests way to interpret Marx is to consider the context he wrote in"
That's the basic difference between empirical and normative science.
And basically all questions of politics are at least partially normative.
I agree that materialistic dialectics can be used as scientific tools, and are by most people, but science also means, you accept that no one can have the "only true opinion" as empirical facts can be interpreted widely different and no human has ALL information. And even if one had, there are always subjective weightings at play (is human suffering worse than human death? Is animal death worse than human suffering? Is the system more valuable than individual freedoms?)
Science means knowing what you can and can't prove, so if you are scientific, you know that not everybody comes to the same conclusion even when using the same facts.
gonna need proof of "China masacered[sic] the Uigurs[sic]" that doesn't cite the far-right extremist Falun Gong cult, its "news" site The Epoch Times, or its Western mouthpiece, fundamentalist evangelical Christian pastor Adrian Zenz.
So what's your problem then? The tanks were sent and the nazis were crushed. Also, krushchev sent the tanks, not stalin. What's your problem with stalin?
What's my problem with Stalin?
I could not have described my problem with talking to people here better than you demonstrated it in this simple question, even if I would have used 100 words.
You being dumbfounded that you have to justify your baseless beliefs that Stalin is some monster is a perfect summary of why you're a lib who will gladly side with fascists when your treats are at stake.
There's that empty liberal appeal to an assumed normative opinion again, combined with "uhh actually you have now proven my nebulous non-point by asking a basic question"
My man is floundering
Jean le Flambeur? More like Jean le Flounder.
Yeah it seems the problem is that you are a liberal. You calling us woke is a sign of being a wrecker.
Ahaha it gets better every comment. -(Wrong) Assumtions about my political believes -ranting about stuff I day don't even say (classical strawman)
This is a joke that just keeps on giving :D
It's in the title. It's the new woke.
Try reading what thread you're in first.
Also: Would you send tanks into hungary?
Yeah, but I didn't say anywhere that I agree with the OPs on the other server.
I think the word tankie gets used inflationary by centrists that don't know what it means, but that's not what u want to think. You want to put me in a box in your heads ;)
That's what a liberal would say.
A liberal would also dodge all questions that make imperialists uncomfortable, like whether they would send tanks into hungary.
And it just goes on. But I do dodge the questions, I'll give you that. I'll even tell you why: I came here to have interesting discussions on how to create a better society. Communists are in the defense and neoliberalism is omnipresent, connecting and organising are more important then ever, part of connecting is sharing experiences with others online. But after I was in this community for 10 min. I realized, that I won't get that here. Majority of people here is just trying to vilanise everyone who remotely challenges their believes, put them in a box and then being proud they stand up against someone bad. So recently I'm just doing it for the fun and giggles (and therefore not putting effort in answering difficult questions which are actually complicated). The way people really think they are making a point when in reality they just show their own superiority complex isquite entertaining after all.
But the question about sending tanks is important because with this we could weed out nazi enablers.
Sure, because there is only black and white. Either you choose violence in every scenario or u are Nazi lover.
Flawless logic.
So this means you would not send the tanks?
The nazis will now put all non-nazis in hungary into concentration camps.
Nazi enabler.
Edit: You could have avoided most of the violence (that the nazis will inflict on innocent people now) by sending the tanks.
Hey Mr. Actually Laughing, that's what you came in here to do. Don't want to fit in the box? Don't be a square
Oh I don't do, and really don't need to prove that to some online bible stalinists. But its funny what your dogma glasses let you think is a square ^^
"Noooo I am totally not a liberal! I am an anarcho-bidenist-gonzaloite with juan guaido characteristics"
-liberals wanting to not be called liberals
At least nobody is actually deleting your comments. When I posted the original thing to lemmy.world about how the word 'tankie' is used to stop all discourse, and then responded with many points, they deleted everything. As in poof no dialogue at all. At least we are all reading your words and responding. The downvotes don't mean anything other than there is disagreement with the conclusions of the argument is all. I say keep talking! I will upvote all your stuff. It is all about dialogue.
For real, they complain about "authoritarian tankies and their echo chambers" when we're not even censoring them like they do to us, they just can't handle being shown to be wrong.
You can't be an echo chamber because others are worse, that's your argument?
I have not been shown wrong, under this post I was agressivly told "that tankie means everyone you don't agree with", that "everyone who uses the word tankie is a lib and therefore wrong." Execept you call yourself one, then you get cherished and upvoted) , and it was implied, that I love Nazis if I don't agree with the people here.
Lots of people made lots of claims, but there wasn't anything shown let alone proven.
That's no discussion culture, that's a "have my opinion or get out" culture.
Just admit that you didn't know about the nazis in hungary, and you can still get out without being called a nazi enabler
Yeah, but there is no real dialogue with most people here. Even if its just a question about what a word means.
Me: tankie comes from tanks They: no it means "commie I don't like" Me:that's not what most people think of when hearing the word, there can be different opinions about using tanks against civilians They: "so you love Nazis?"
That's not what I understand to be an discussion. A discussion would mean listening to the other party and trying to understand. With most people here its either like talking to a wall or talking with someone who's hobby it is building strawman arguments
You're not here for a dialogue, you're here because of a nagging sense of being complicit in something monstrous that compels you to justify your shallow beliefs and corrosive way of life by spewing half-digested propaganda at people discussing the problem.
Ahaha I wish you could read this from my perspective. You guys are so funny desperately trying to prove I'm a fascist/lib/nazi.
All the baseless assumptions you need to make to keep your blissfully "I'm the hero and everyone else is dumb" mindset.
Its just comedy gold
Would you send tanks?
I'll say it again:
If you don’t send tanks into hungary, the nazis will do pogroms and construct concentration camps there. Not sending tanks is inhumanly cruel.
The nazis aren't our people.
And everyone who don't likes Stalin is a Nazi
/kappa
The uprising in hungary was a nazi uprising, with pogroms.
There's a really great graphic novel called 'Berlin' that goes into how the Nazis came to be, how the communists were the ones that organized worker strikes to stop railroads to death camps etc. I don't think our meme warfare on the net will change anything but if your looking for a fun read checkit. Is there anything you would recommend for me? I probably I'll read it. I'm a reader.
Oh i totaly agree that communists were often the strongest force against fascists. Don't have to like Stalin to be a communist nor to be antifascist though
What is your opinion on the standing rock protests and the Kentucky state massacre
Also the 1956 Hungarian coup attempt that the epithet "tankies" comes from was literally full of nazis lmao
That's correct, specifically a state that uses tanks against its people in revolt.
However, people on Reddit (and on Lemmy now) basically use it to refer to any leftist they have a disagreement with.
Well saying tankies support using tanks against civilians gets you down voted on lemmygrad.
No tankies here though, all just libs propaganda
/kappa
So you want the nazis to murder everyone in hungary?
Thats such an obvious strawman, i dont think i need to answer that ;)
Because if you would answer that you would have to admit that the wokes were right.
This is a rhetorical trap called "reality".
Oh I think there are a lot of people who get called woke and are right. Your rhetorical trap is not reality, its trying to get me to say something which confirms your prejustices.
Remember, my claim, forwhich you guys are fighting me here was "tankie" has other than "someone I don't like"
You attacked me verbally for saying that, and then realized, that you can't win this argument, cause in reality you agree with me so you try to shift the battlefield to a discussion you can win (and kept pressing really hard with your Hungarian Nazis ^^)
That's your rhetorical strategy, it has nothing to do with reality ;)
It was you who insisted that t***** was only targeted at people who wanted to send tanks into hungary to crush the nazi uprising.
I never talked about Hungary or Nazis (at least not before you guys insisted on that topic because that's a fight u practised)
My talking point was, and still is, "tankie doesn't mean " people I don't like " in my part of the world and most online debates. Sure there are people who use it this way, but they are far from the majority in my experience.
Even after I told you why I am here, you keep on building more stawmans to entertain me. Very nice of u ^^
Liar.
Nazi enabler.