(I didn't, largely since I've never watched a single episode, but the psychic damage and whiplash of Wholesome Pony Show having said this line was too fuckn much for me)

EDIT: More replies than upbears now. It’s probably an official struggle session now (although most of it is that one person). One must imagine SisyFEWs happy.

  • BeamBrain [he/him]
    ·
    11 months ago

    I think a lot of the backlash was rooted in misogyny. "Oh no, how dare men like girl thing"

    • KobaCumTribute [she/her]
      ·
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      Remember that a big chunk of the historical fandom was weirdo fascist edgelords who wanted to fuck the ponies and wrote horny violent fanfics about them. One of the longest fanfics about anything (FOE:PH) is basically "Made in Abyss but it's ponies and set in a post apocalyptic wasteland."

      • BeamBrain [he/him]
        ·
        11 months ago

        FOE:PH

        Oh God, I remember hearing talk about how terrible this was and having a peek out of morbid curiosity. I made it maybe a quarter of the way through the first chapter before I had to dip out at the exhaustively described fever dream of what MRAs imagine a society run by feminists would look like.

        • UlyssesT [he/him]
          ·
          11 months ago

          Wasn't there also a Fallout crossover fanfic that completely missed the humor aspect that was always present in Fallout and was sort of edgy for edginess' sake? I never read it, but its fandom was pretty scared-fash at a glance.

          • KobaCumTribute [she/her]
            ·
            11 months ago

            The most infamous of those is the one I mentioned, Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons, but the original Fallout Equestria was also pretty bad just much, much more tame than FOE:PH was.

            • UlyssesT [he/him]
              ·
              11 months ago

              You said it's related to Made in Abyss so I take it there's a lot of libertarian-alert factor too. lea-why

              • KobaCumTribute [she/her]
                ·
                11 months ago

                It predates it, but it is similar in tone and grotesqueness. Although thinking about the full depth of the problems with Made in Abyss that I covered exhaustively in a post last night, FOE:PH isn't as bad. It's a gratuitous, edgy spectacle that handles problematic themes poorly, but it's merely making an exploitative spectacle of them while Made in Abyss is even worse. AFAIK most of the characters in Project Horizons are adults though, though I think there's some nonce stuff in there too.

                • UlyssesT [he/him]
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  I have no idea why you read it, but I assume it was something like this as a situation.

                  dead-dove-1

                  dead-dove-2

                  dead-dove-3

                  • KobaCumTribute [she/her]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    11 months ago

                    I compulsively consume problematic slop, and was even worse about it a decade ago when I was in the process of rebuilding my schema from the ground up after dismantling twenty years of calcified repression brainworms, which is around when I read part of the then-incomplete FOE:PH specifically because of its reputation. Made in Abyss has to be the only thing that's actually made me sick to watch, however. I can't emphasize enough how even the people who condemn it undersell just how vile it is; it's in a league of awful all of its own. Like I feel even my "Made in Abyss is the worst thing anyone has ever made" rant is too soft, because I couldn't stomach really dredging up the specifics.

                    • UlyssesT [he/him]
                      ·
                      11 months ago

                      From what I know about it, there's a blurry line between "presents and does not condone, and maybe didn't read the room and has hogs eating the slop now" to "presents and claims it does not condone and it's clear the makers are also the hogs." yea

                      • KobaCumTribute [she/her]
                        ·
                        11 months ago

                        I think there's generally three fuzzy categories problematic content can fall into in mainstream works: presents [bad thing] and condemns it, clearly establishing that it's bad; presents [bad thing] and shows that it's harmful but takes no overt stance, leaving the audience to infer for themselves that it's bad; and presents [bad thing] and really revels in how the spectacle of it being awful in a crass and gratuitous way.

                        Made in Abyss is a fourth category altogether: presents [the worst shit you'll ever see] and revels in it, and narratively treats it as normal and ok. It transcends the whole "showing things are bad vs making a crass spectacle" spectrum by becoming a de facto endorsement of what it's showing off.

                        Fuck, I really need to find something to take my mind of this and hope the brain poisoning from engaging with it wears off soon.

                        • UlyssesT [he/him]
                          ·
                          11 months ago

                          Fuck, I really need to find something to take my mind of this and hope the brain poisoning from engaging with it wears off soon.

                          Aggretsuko is a good time and may work like brain bleach with a bit of cathartic rage. sicko-wholesome

                        • Cromalin [she/her]
                          ·
                          11 months ago

                          you mentioned watching utena, did you ever finish it? it handles a lot of the stuff that you described in made in abyss but like. it is good at condemning the way children are groomed and exploited in patriarchal societies, and never sexualizes them, and has all the characters grow and change over time

                          • KobaCumTribute [she/her]
                            ·
                            11 months ago

                            I have not gotten back to it yet, I'm still working my way through Sailor Moon and nearly through the third season.

                            • Cromalin [she/her]
                              ·
                              edit-2
                              11 months ago

                              how is that? i remember the 3rd season being my favorite, but i'm a very different person now

                              sailor moon might be better at washing away the made in abyss, so that might be smart

                              • KobaCumTribute [she/her]
                                ·
                                11 months ago

                                It's ok. The earlier half of the season was better, I think, because Haruka and Michiro are more interesting characters when they're being people instead of standoffish edgelords without a fraction of the conviction they claim to have, and they get worse about doing that after the season's turning point. The fact that the story's being driven along by poor communication on all sides is also more frustrating than anything and brings the story down a bit - the back and forth between Haruka's "grr I'm so edgy and brooding, no one has my strength of conviction! I would sacrifice anyone and anything to save the world!" and Usagi's "Noooo that's bad actually!" just feels kind of hollow in the context of the main characters all literally dying in the first season and Usagi in particular having sacrificed her life no less than three times already by that point (well, I think she actually only died twice and the other time she just nearly died, but still). Chibiusa is also just an extremely grating character, though Usagi's character growth in starting to actually act like her mother is sweet and the one redeeming part of her inclusion in the story.

      • BeamBrain [he/him]
        ·
        11 months ago

        Mario and Pokemon are for children too and nobody gives a shit if you like them as an adult

        • Currently_on_Nitrous [comrade/them, any]
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          Mario is the tale of a union man taking mushrooms and rescuing his side piece from a human trafficking dinosaur. Pokemon is about a kid winning a series of cockfights and taking down the mafia. For kids? Hardly. morshupls

          • BeamBrain [he/him]
            ·
            11 months ago

            MLP is literally for babies that barely comprehend language and operates as such.

            You clearly don't actually know anything about the show and you're just going off of either your own assumptions or what other people have told you. I'd explain why you're wrong, but I've dealt with enough people like you to know you'd just double down. You don't have any good reason for believing what you believe. You just want an excuse to feel superior to other people.

              • BeamBrain [he/him]
                ·
                edit-2
                11 months ago

                Histerical

                There's the misogyny! Thank you for helping prove the point of my original comment Care-Comrade

                • UlyssesT [he/him]
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  As @LGOrcStreetSamurai@hexbear.net already put it in this thread, the response to that show in retrospect does say a lot about the people making that response.

                  There's plenty of room to criticize its ideology and its political messages, but "X IS FOR BABIES" dogma is just... exhausting. And feeds into so much bullying-adjacent reactionary hog shit. disgost

                    • BeamBrain [he/him]
                      ·
                      11 months ago

                      You know, my trans roommate likes MLP. She used to live with her abusive family who tried to force her to detransition. Among many other ways they abused her was ridiculing her for liking MLP and forcing her to hide her interest in it, and their attitude towards her interest in the show is a lot like what I'm seeing from you right now.

                      • UlyssesT [he/him]
                        ·
                        edit-2
                        11 months ago

                        You know, my trans roommate likes MLP. She used to live with her abusive family who tried to force her to detransition. Among many other ways they abused her was ridiculing her for liking MLP and forcing her to hide her interest in it, and their attitude towards her interest in the show is a lot like what I'm seeing from you right now.

                        I work in a public school where I had seen "mature" kids bully other kids for having MLP flair on their backpacks. Or having the wrong color backpacks. Or for seeming too sensitive. Such "mature" kids tended to go to detention a lot and made teaching a lot harder than it had to be because that "maturity" seemed to compel them to bully people. debord-tired

                        The shows have changed over time, but the "X IS FOR BABIES" brainworms wriggle through, year after year.

                        • BeamBrain [he/him]
                          ·
                          edit-2
                          11 months ago

                          Holy shit the person we were arguing with went into the megathread to passive-aggressively call us out data-laughing

                          It's a good thing we have people like that around to show all the babies what a shining example of maturity looks like

                          • UlyssesT [he/him]
                            ·
                            edit-2
                            11 months ago

                            I just noticed that very mature user has an anime avatar. pathetic

                            Memes about the cointoss chance of chuddery from the anime avatar haver aside, it's pretty rich that ALL CARTOONS ARE FOR BABIES yet apparently anime cartoons are for Mature AdultPeople. morshupls

                          • UlyssesT [he/him]
                            ·
                            11 months ago

                            Holy shit the person we were arguing with went into the megathread to passive-aggressively call us out

                            Maturity intensifies frothingfash

                    • UlyssesT [he/him]
                      ·
                      11 months ago

                      You are a baby. It's why you need the bright colored images of emojis in all of your treat treatises.

                      Your mask has fallen completely off at this point. Are you going to foam at the mouth about Owl House next? frothingfash owl-wink

                        • UlyssesT [he/him]
                          ·
                          11 months ago

                          Actually, please list out every cartoon you've watched and also plan to watch.

                          Please stop namedropping cartoons you watch.

                          WATCHING CARTOONS IS AGAINST HOLY SACRED ADULTHOOD THIS REACTION TO THE VERY IDEA OF WATCHING CARTOONS IS VERY MATURE frothingfash

                          Tell me how good Dragon Tales is next.

                          ... so by your own logic, you watch Dragon Tales? fry

                          Oh! Oh! Is Futurama also FOR BABIES(tm) because it's a cartoon? farnsworth

                        • UlyssesT [he/him]
                          ·
                          edit-2
                          11 months ago

                          Actually, please list out every cartoon you've watched and also plan to watch.

                          Please stop namedropping cartoons you watch.

                          WATCHING CARTOONS IS AGAINST HOLY SACRED ADULTHOOD THIS REACTION TO THE VERY IDEA OF WATCHING CARTOONS IS VERY MATURE frothingfash

                          Tell me how good Dragon Tales is next.

                          ... so by your own logic, you watch Dragon Tales? fry

                          Oh! Oh! Is Futurama also FOR BABIES(tm) because it's a cartoon? farnsworth

                        • UlyssesT [he/him]
                          ·
                          11 months ago

                          It's one of those "for children, but not hostile toward adults that are also present" shows.

                          But apparently it's also rage bait for very mature posters here. frothingfash

              • UlyssesT [he/him]
                ·
                11 months ago

                Histerical baby shit.

                In one line you managed to present an adolescent-like preoccupation with performative adulthood in a bullying way and added some misogyny! congratulations

                  • UlyssesT [he/him]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    11 months ago

                    The way you're presenting your "X IS FOR BABIES" dogma could be plucked right out of a grade school cafeteria from about ten years ago.

                    It really does seem immature to be that mad about people enjoying something that has insufficient "mature" blood, gore, or sexual violence for your tastes.

                    EDIT:

                    Oh, you just posted this too:

                    You are a baby. It's why you need the bright colored images of emojis in all of your treat treatises.

                    THAT KID'S LUNCHBOX HAS TOO MANY STICKERS IT IS TIME TO BULLY THEM IN A VERY MATURE WAY frothingfash

                    I take it this was written by a "baby," too?

                    Show

                      • UlyssesT [he/him]
                        ·
                        11 months ago

                        I do work in a public school; I sort of see bullies like you on a regular basis there, often harassing kids that did nothing except have the wrong color backpack, and such "mature" people like you tend to get detention. debord-tired

          • Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            ·
            11 months ago

            Honestly, unless you're talking about MLP as it existed before or after the 2010s, I just don't see how you can conclude that so confidently. Friendship is Magic was better written than half of the shows that adults are supposed to like.

            • Comp4 [she/her]
              ·
              11 months ago

              I didnt watch all seasons of it but the first 3 seasons are a pretty fun kind hearted show. Gonna finish it one of these days.

              • uralsolo
                ·
                edit-2
                8 months ago

                deleted by creator

            • UlyssesT [he/him]
              ·
              11 months ago

              I just don't see how you can conclude that so confidently.

              "X IS FOR BABIES" dogma. Not even once. debord-tired

      • pooh [she/her, any]
        ·
        edit-2
        11 months ago

        It was originally written by the same person who wrote Powerpuff Girls and a lot of the humor is similar in the sense that it appeals to both kids and older viewers.

        • Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          ·
          11 months ago

          the same person who wrote Powerpuff Girls

          This just in: Lauren Faust being Craig McCracken's wife was a conspiracy all along; she is actually his drag persona

            • Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              ·
              11 months ago

              I had tried to edit with a clarification that she wrote for both series but that McCracken was the actual creator of Powerpuff Girls, but maybe that didn't load on your end.

              • pooh [she/her, any]
                ·
                11 months ago

                Ah, ok. In that case I should clarify that while she wasn't officially the show creator, I do think a lot of the writing and jokes are similar between the two.