- cross-posted to:
- us_news@lemmygrad.ml
- usa@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- us_news@lemmygrad.ml
- usa@lemmy.ml
https://archive.ph/8kAKH
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Whatever challenges Taiwan may face during manufacturing, I imagine them being an island surrounded by water helps. Whereas Arizona is… a desert. Unless I’m behind Arizonian lore here, I don’t think a place that imports water by the truckload is the best place for a notoriously water intensive production.
Arizona was one of the stranger locations to pick to be sure. That said, Taiwan needs purified water that can't be directly sourced from the ocean, so chip making is also causing trouble there. For example, this kind of stuff happens there https://www.npr.org/2023/04/13/1169462995/taiwan-makes-tough-decisions-as-it-faces-its-worst-drought-in-nearly-a-century
Arizona was one of the stranger locations to pick to be sure.
Not as strange as you might think.
Intel fabs have been located in Arizona for decades. There are six fabs open currently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_manufacturing_sites#Current_fab_sites
About water. The Colorado River provides the largest source of fresh water (that can be purified further and easier) for the Greater Phoenix Valley. They are stored in reservoirs behind large dams. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_River_Project (sorry to use natopedia but these pages were short and to the point)
It's disgusting how many data centers are located in Phoenix. It's the (mostly) dry climate, and that allows better thermal and moisture control.
EDIT: Here are the locations of Data Center in the Phoenix area. 78 just in that area. https://www.datacentermap.com/usa/arizona/phoenix/
It's disgusting how many data centers are located in Phoenix. It's the (mostly) dry climate, and that allows better thermal and moisture control.
that says to me "american data centers have cheaped out on moisture control" and one good big wet storm over arizona is gonna fuck some shit up
Nah. They already know which areas get the heaviest rains during monsoon season and which areas are prone to flooding and build accordingly.
Haven't heard of one yet that went down due to rain. That might change in the future though.
The problem is that the Colorado River is drying up https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/environment/colorado-river-drying-up/
And the data centers and chip fabs are mostly the cause of the problem.
Right, that's why it seems like a bad idea to build more given the current state of things.
And yet they still do. Google was the most recent.
Phoenix Arizonans are gonna die before they revolt and take back the water.
Edited for grammar.
living in phoenix for almost decade has taught me that an overwhelming majority of phoenicians don't care; so most will never notice the lack of water and will never revolt even if they did.
same is true for austin.
That said, Taiwan needs purified water that can't be directly sourced from the ocean
why not, what's wrong with distilling water from ocean water
the only difference should be the energy input required
Desalinating and purifying the water costs energy as well, and Taiwan imports over 90% of its energy. So, there's only so much clean water they can produce, meaning that they have to make choices regarding how it's allocated.
The CHIPS Act money could have better spent on Frito Lay's, Herr's, Utz and others.
the whole project basically achieved the exact opposite of its stated goals
This is why the bottom-up democracy of China works better. As I understand it -feel free to correct me- at the local level it is very democratic and with a lot of citizens participating. The local politicians then climb up the hierarchy until assuming top national positions through merit, be it by passing tests or proven track record of accomplishments. I think the USSR also had something similar which is where the term soviet comes from.
Indeed, there's actually a pretty good overview of how the system works here https://news.cgtn.com/event/2021/who-runs-the-cpc/index.html
FYI TSMC was forced by the US to build a non-profitable plant in Arizona https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2022/04/22/2003776996
These guys aren't idiots. Most Taiwanese companies are headed by engineers that are pennypinchers.
Frankly, I can't see what possible reason TSMC would have for actually wanting the project to succeed.
In reading the article it sounds like the conflict -- or at least the one they highlight here -- is not of cost of labor but that workers aren't used to and won't tolerate TSMC's heavy-handed management approach.
American labor is 50% more expensive than in Taiwan. The US doesn't have the skilled labor necessary to expand capacity. The attrition rate is high at 40% because the semiconductor market competes with other industries for the same labor, and American workers don't like the work culture. To retain workers, American fabs need to bid up prices. Semiconductors produced in the US will need to pass on their costs onto consumers, and demand for the final product is affected by prices, not just utility. Passing on costs onto consumers, governments subsidies will probably still be necessary many years into the future.
buy american!
unless it’s products and services that actually matter!
