I posted this on /c/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns but on further reflection that was possibly an error because it's a question about cis. Since I'm seeking ideas that would be relevant to a cis person it would be better to pose the question more widely. Trans people probably don't spend much time reading stuff describing why they are human and debunking arguments to the contrary so might not have such sources on the tip of the tongue.

The original thread has lots of good answers and I am mulling them over and following sources. So you should read them if you are interested.

Hope it's not ridiculous to x-post myself. :/

cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/3576012

I don't know if any CW are required for this but if so suggest them and I will add. I'm not mentioning any particular hateful things; just the presence of them.

An old comrade of mine has fallen into the grips of anti trans bigotry.

It has been happening for 10+ years and I have raised the issue multiple times when we've been together or in touch. They downplayed their investment in the ideas.

Recently I have learned that it has crept into their mass organizing. This person is an excellent, committed, powerful organizer working for years at a local level.

I think they are now getting in to organizing explicitly on anti-trans grounds. They have capacity to be highly effective at this. But really it is the integration of anti-trans stuff into legitimate mass organizing work that is more dangerous. My understanding is that they are seeking to orient these orgs against the interests of trans people and to exclude trans people and even trans-allied people from organizing.

This person made many key political contributions to who I am. Much of the good I have done as an organizer is due to their influence on me. Without them I would have ended up the most insufferable kind of lib. On a personal level, it breaks my heart to see this has happened to a dear friend. I feel compelled to attempt to return the wisdom and patience they afforded me when I needed it, and offer them a better perspective, help them be a better organizer.

I plan to attempt intervention. We live far away from each other but do keep occasional contact. Less so over recent years just due to being on different social media platforms. I could get some correspondence and maybe a phone call to discuss this on the basis of our long standing relationship. I would offer to maintain the dialogue on going if they were willing.

  • general advice?
  • have you tried this and if so how did it go?
  • is there hope?
  • some kind of FAQ covering anti-trans misinformation; more in-depth and comprehensive would be better (for me to read)
  • writing/ideas aimed specifically at communists/socialists
  • theory to understand trans* from marxist/materialist perspective
    • I know this sounds stupid but they already have theory to hate trans*
  • This person is coming at it from a TERF (as in actual old school radical feminsm) perspective, not a right-wing/fash perspective
  • The idea of "bourgeois decadence" is important here. It's not something I ever found to be very compelling so I don't have much analysis to counter it.

Of course I have my own ideas and knowledge but I'm sure all of the above has been perfected so I want to make sure I have the best at top of mind.

This person is pretty stubborn, as required to be a lifelong revolutionary. So I know I'm not going to turn the ship around in one conversation. I am considering strategy of reformism or harm reduction. For example if I could convince them to avoid bringing these ideas into their organizing, even while still holding them privately, it would be a benefit.

  • Nakoichi [they/them]
    ·
    2 months ago

    Not sure how to respond to you specifically but as someone going through a bit of an identity crisis myself who probably held some similarly reactionary views not long ago I could probably do good to talk to them personally.

    I think they are now getting in to organizing explicitly on anti-trans grounds.

    This part needs addressing immediately and frankly I don't mince words about this and the solutions are illegal-to-say

    • glans [it/its]
      ·
      2 months ago

      I cannot emphasize enough that I am very very far away from this person so physical interventions are off the table.

      If that weren't the case, I would certainly lose a fight.

      • Nakoichi [they/them]
        ·
        2 months ago

        damn that sucks wish I could fight in your stead. I'm in that kinda mood rn.

  • starkillerfish [she/her]
    ·
    2 months ago

    Trans people probably don't spend much time reading stuff describing why they are human and debunking arguments to the contrary so might not have such sources on the tip of the tongue.

    That is like, half true. I've talked with people who are skeptical about aspects of trans experience or something, I've written essays about it. Usually people are just curious. In you post, there is just not much info that you have provided to debunk. Like do they actually think that a part of the population is not human? That is pretty far gone, I'm not sure there is anything to be done.

    As others have noted in the comments, "bourgeois decadence" is simply absurd and not a marxist approach to organising. For the TERF point, they are aligned purely with right-wing groups, I don't think the distinction between "actual old school feminist" and fash is relevant. When you are aligned with anti-communists in your goals, I think there is some major self-reflection to be done.