Jeanne Marrazzo, new leader of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, everyone:
Can I make a quick digression? We recently had a long Covid [research] meeting where we had about 200 people, in person. And we can’t mandate mask-wearing, because it’s federal property. But there was a fair amount of disturbance that we couldn’t, and people weren’t wearing masks, and one person accused us of committing a microaggression by not wearing masks.
And I take that very seriously. But I thought to myself, it’s more that people just want to live a normal life. We really don’t want to go back. It was so painful. We’re still all traumatized. Let’s be honest about that. None of us are over it.
So there’s not a lot of appetite for raising an alarm, especially if it could be perceived subsequently as a false alarm.
Edit - thanks for the help in bypassing the paywall.
Your second paragraph reminds me. I just read Devon Price's Unlearning Shame, and was somewhat shocked by his read on Covid, where he talks about how we shouldn't shame people who don't follow health guidelines. The point of "Don't blame individuals for a systemic problem" is fine, but when it comes to actively and repeatedly endangering people's health, there's plenty of room for individual shaming. Like - don't shame someone for having a DUI on their record, fine. But if they still drive drunk every day, that person is dangerous, no matter how acceptable drunk driving might be in their culture.
Masking divides who means what they say and who is just talking
It's the carrot and the stick, right? As socialists we generally want to move in the direction to positively reinforce the desirable behaviors in society, rather than the punitive carceral approach that we perceive as reactionary. But if you abstract away all personal connection to anti-social and reactionary tendencies in society then you're forgetting that society is actually made up of individuals, and individuals need to be motivated to stop engaging in harmful behaviors. You can't always do that with the carrot, so you'll always need the stick, even if only marginally.
Fairweather leftists can sometimes get so caught up in "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DOOOOOO" that it's hard to tell them apart from libertarians sometimes.
Shame is an essential tool that prevents the proliferation of bullies in human society. Ruling classes have obviously historically weaponized shame in horrific ways (ahem Christianity), but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.
Seriously? Shame realistically just enforces social norms. That's often violent.
Shame is a tool and it can be used to mold society in good or bad ways. I don’t see how this is controversial.
No, shame is reactionary. As a social force it is used as a tool of aversion, and cognitively it has wide-ranging negative effects. A culture that employs shame to discipline its people will inevitably create a culture where people cannot be themselves. You state:
But you cannot just cross off all the ways class society uses shame as weaponization.
Most instances where you think shame could be helpful (presumably in some sort of harmonious socialist society?) is better suited to the revolutionary social force & emotion of solidarity & empathy. Whereas repeated shame crushes one's spirit, instilling a sense of solidarity will only create more positive outcomes both socially and psychologically.
I am not the person who wrote that, no. I do not have solidarity with people whose actions will kill me.
ugh fuck sorry
Shame is a universal aspect of human society and existence. Prior to class society, people used shaming rituals to prevent others from exhibiting dominant behaviors e.g. hoarding food in order to maintain communal society and prevent subjugation. I don't think shame is in and of itself a bad thing, it depends on who is wielding it.
I actually don't know if I fully agree, there's a lot of really horrible things that deserve shame but it's pretty unproductive as an internalized emotion. In my experience shame mostly just results in defeatism if it's fully internalized. It's useful for undermining a sense of internal worth but isn't productive for anything else, so it's pretty much an inherently reactionary emotion if it's become a self-directed emotional state. But not when it's directed from outside.
It's still useful as like a, social thing. Shaming people good, shame bad, basically
Racism is a systemic problem but that doesn't mean I have to tolerate someone yelling slurs in line at the bank
In my experience people get really weird and defensive when they feel guilty about the masking stuff, so while it's for the wrong reasons, using mostly positive motivation instead is still good advice. Usually. Sometimes you get assholes ofc and they need to know it
Price did provide plenty of examples and research showing that shaming people is counterproductive, but it seemed (I haven't investigated all of the endnotes) like that was all for matters of personal motivation. I'm willing to listen to contrary evidence, of course, but don't we know that shame has worked in matters of public health before? There's a lot less secondhand smoke than there was when I was a kid, and not just in places where ordinances prohibit it. That is, shame doesn't get people to stop smoking, but it might get people to stop smoking around infants.
I think it's exactly what I said, then. Shame is a strong social motivator but not a good personal motivator. I think that's because social shame stands in the way of being seen as cool and good by people around you, which turns it into sort of a positive motivator by making friendship and social interaction necessitate self-moderation of the thing shame is being used to moderate.
Thanks for the clarification - I took "positive motivation" way too literally.
I mean fair enough, at this point I'm unsure what I mean