I think liberals have done a better job at combating nationalism within their own borders than any socialist country ever has. The nationalist tendencies in eastern europe are far worse than in western europe and this was never actually solved by the soviets.
I don't think formerly oppressed groups fighting for self determination is a virtue and will almost certainly just end up like contemporary Israel if they get their way as Israel is far from the only country like this.
"Western Europe" nationalism is curbed because nationalism is a threat to the neoliberal EU project which is itself too big too fail.
Looking at the issues of Spain/Italy/Greece you'll see specially how Greece was forced to accept the German led negotiation(the Troika) of their deals or suffer severe consequences. You can read that Varoufakis writings where he basically admit the "socialist" option(or really any anti-imperialist arrangement) like leaving the EU, abandoning the Euro, defaulting, becoming socialist was not an option period.
It is not about "liberals" fighting nationalism out of good will lol as much as neoliberals having to maintain a heavy grip on the nations part of/close to the imperial core. Is that something to applaud them for? I mean this is a thread for lib takes so maybe. But from an actual leftist point of view not at all.
Then you compare that to the former USSR countries and you can see the clear differences. While the entire western capitalist countries conspired with and supported nationalist anti-USSR/right wing movements in order to de-stabilize the region, the same policy can't be applied back at home. Germans for example have no reason to be extremely nationalist when Germany is already at the heart and control of the EU.
The same goes for France. Both are changing though e.g the migrant crisis.
But as I said as soon as you look at the edges like the UK/Spain/Greece/Italy you'll see neoliberalism is not able to contain this threat any better than other countries.
I never said it was about them fighting it out of good will. It's just that they have been more effective at doing so. It has to do with increased urbanization of these nation's which is what their economic policies forced into happening. Their economic policies forced people to be continuously moving around and that makes them more open to pluralism.
Also Germany and France both have nationalism problems in former declined industrial areas too. It's within east germany that you see AfD do the best.
I think liberals have done a better job at combating nationalism within their own borders than any socialist country ever has. The nationalist tendencies in eastern europe are far worse than in western europe and this was never actually solved by the soviets.
I don't think formerly oppressed groups fighting for self determination is a virtue and will almost certainly just end up like contemporary Israel if they get their way as Israel is far from the only country like this.
"Western Europe" nationalism is curbed because nationalism is a threat to the neoliberal EU project which is itself too big too fail. Looking at the issues of Spain/Italy/Greece you'll see specially how Greece was forced to accept the German led negotiation(the Troika) of their deals or suffer severe consequences. You can read that Varoufakis writings where he basically admit the "socialist" option(or really any anti-imperialist arrangement) like leaving the EU, abandoning the Euro, defaulting, becoming socialist was not an option period.
It is not about "liberals" fighting nationalism out of good will lol as much as neoliberals having to maintain a heavy grip on the nations part of/close to the imperial core. Is that something to applaud them for? I mean this is a thread for lib takes so maybe. But from an actual leftist point of view not at all.
Then you compare that to the former USSR countries and you can see the clear differences. While the entire western capitalist countries conspired with and supported nationalist anti-USSR/right wing movements in order to de-stabilize the region, the same policy can't be applied back at home. Germans for example have no reason to be extremely nationalist when Germany is already at the heart and control of the EU. The same goes for France. Both are changing though e.g the migrant crisis.
But as I said as soon as you look at the edges like the UK/Spain/Greece/Italy you'll see neoliberalism is not able to contain this threat any better than other countries.
I never said it was about them fighting it out of good will. It's just that they have been more effective at doing so. It has to do with increased urbanization of these nation's which is what their economic policies forced into happening. Their economic policies forced people to be continuously moving around and that makes them more open to pluralism.
Also Germany and France both have nationalism problems in former declined industrial areas too. It's within east germany that you see AfD do the best.