How we doing, folks? Read anything lately? News item caught your eye? Something else to share with the class?

    • snackage [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      Kibbutz movement

      Anarchism in my settler colonialism? Not the company I expected anarchists would like to advertise.

      • AStonedApe [they/them]
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        edit-2
        4 years ago

        Kibbutzim have existed in Palestine since long before the Israeli state. And many kibbutzim are anti-Zionism and very much anti-authority. Don't let yourself fall into the Israel = Jews trap, comrade.

        Edit: Kibbutzim

        • snackage [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          I see your edit there Ms. Ape. You didn't get away with it. Pretty sure that already disproves your argument. Zionism is the settler colonial ideology and the Kibbutz movement was a part of it.

          And many kibbutz are anti-Zionism

          [citations needed] Also we're talking about the movement and a few counter examples don't prove much. Also plural is kibbutzim.

            • snackage [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              The Kibbutz settlements existed nearly four decades prior to the state of Israel

              And Theodor Herzl died in 1904. What's your point? The Zionist project is a multi decade colonial effort. It doesn't just pop up with the Declaration of Establishment. The first Zionist Congress was in 1897. Left-Zionism is an oxymoron and there's no way around it.

              How can you justify anarchist cells in a nationalist project? That's 🤡

                • snackage [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  My contention to that would be that there is no modern Kibbutz movement.

                  but it seems to have completely evolved to the point where it should no longer be considered in any way related to Zionism

                  Their actions don't seem to support that thesis. If it were so I would expect them to be anti-zionist which they clearly are not.

              • AStonedApe [they/them]
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                4 years ago

                How can you justify anarchist cells in a nationalist project?

                Unless I'm confused, I don't see how one could not justify anarchist cells in a nationalist project. Are we also supposed to be against EZLN because they're an anarchist cell in a nationalist state?

                • snackage [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  EZLN

                  The Zapatistas themselves reject the Anarchist characterization.

                  @Genghis_Kon Called Kibbutzim Left-Zionist anarchist cells. Zionism is a nationalist movement and it's my understanding that that is antithetical to anarchism. In contrast to the EZLN kibbutzim do not struggle against the Zionist state but are well established and interwoven into a Zionist society.

          • AStonedApe [they/them]
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            edit-2
            4 years ago

            I think you're right, that the history of the Kibbutz movement is directly tied in with Zionism. I was misinformed (not a rare occurrence), so thank you. Deprogramming the Zionist propaganda is hard when you grew up surrounded by it.

            I still think some Kibbutzim are on our side, and we should be willing to work with them. I know many people who have lived on Kibbutzim and they are all very much anti-Israel and anti-authority, and they know that communal living can work because they've lived it.