How we doing, folks? Read anything lately? News item caught your eye? Something else to share with the class?
Kibbutz movement
Anarchism in my settler colonialism? Not the company I expected anarchists would like to advertise.
Kibbutzim have existed in Palestine since long before the Israeli state. And many kibbutzim are anti-Zionism and very much anti-authority. Don't let yourself fall into the Israel = Jews trap, comrade.
Edit: Kibbutzim
I see your edit there Ms. Ape. You didn't get away with it. Pretty sure that already disproves your argument. Zionism is the settler colonial ideology and the Kibbutz movement was a part of it.
And many kibbutz are anti-Zionism
[citations needed] Also we're talking about the movement and a few counter examples don't prove much. Also plural is kibbutzim.
The Kibbutz settlements existed nearly four decades prior to the state of Israel
And Theodor Herzl died in 1904. What's your point? The Zionist project is a multi decade colonial effort. It doesn't just pop up with the Declaration of Establishment. The first Zionist Congress was in 1897. Left-Zionism is an oxymoron and there's no way around it.
How can you justify anarchist cells in a nationalist project? That's 🤡
My contention to that would be that there is no modern Kibbutz movement.
but it seems to have completely evolved to the point where it should no longer be considered in any way related to Zionism
Their actions don't seem to support that thesis. If it were so I would expect them to be anti-zionist which they clearly are not.
How can you justify anarchist cells in a nationalist project?
Unless I'm confused, I don't see how one could not justify anarchist cells in a nationalist project. Are we also supposed to be against EZLN because they're an anarchist cell in a nationalist state?
EZLN
The Zapatistas themselves reject the Anarchist characterization.
@Genghis_Kon Called Kibbutzim Left-Zionist anarchist cells. Zionism is a nationalist movement and it's my understanding that that is antithetical to anarchism. In contrast to the EZLN kibbutzim do not struggle against the Zionist state but are well established and interwoven into a Zionist society.
I think you're right, that the history of the Kibbutz movement is directly tied in with Zionism. I was misinformed (not a rare occurrence), so thank you. Deprogramming the Zionist propaganda is hard when you grew up surrounded by it.
I still think some Kibbutzim are on our side, and we should be willing to work with them. I know many people who have lived on Kibbutzim and they are all very much anti-Israel and anti-authority, and they know that communal living can work because they've lived it.
I'm in the middle of reading The Dispossessed by Ursla K Le Guin. So far, I'm in love.
The book does a wonderful job of describing what an anarchist society would look like while not being too utopian. She creates a world that feels attainable. It's lived in and, while so much better than hellworld, still flawed; like her society was a place people could inhabit tomorrow. Le Guin was such a great author too; that it's a joy to read. I think I'm going to go back to reading it now.
I might have COVID. That's about it. Didn't like that swab going up my nose, no sir!
You're right, I didn't really find it that unpleasant. I shouldn't embellish to impress my internet friends, I'm sorry.
I read that wrong lol thought you didn’t want to get it bc of how unpleasant you heard it was. My fault.
we all like virgil but him saying he had to dunk on chompsky because "anarchists periodically need to be put in their place so people dont start thinking they have rational political views" was laughable
i don't know of any self-respecting anarchist that would fall for the "vote blue no matter who" grift. dunk on chomsky because his opinion on voting sucks
Yea it's really irritating how non-anarchists think that radlibs who claim anarchism like Chomsky are representative of anarchism as a whole. It's also irritating that radlibs claim to be anarchist and then go around insisting that people vote and settle for mild reforms because "anarchism isn't possible in our lifetime". Like, if you don't believe anarchy is possible stop calling yourself an anarchist because it's incoherent and you're giving the rest of the anarchist movement a bad name.
I think it's the best way to combat the atomization of our current moment to create a network that can engage in mutual aid.
I read too much of that Chomsky/Virgil Texas thread and it gave me an aneurysm.
I've been reading a lot about Smangus, but I really wish I could find more sources. It seems like a really cool, working example of an anarchist-esque community, but for some reason the media doesn't seem very interested in reporting on it... I wonder why... 🤔 I think the whole Christian Anarchism thing is pretty cool, and I wish anarchists were more willing to support religious people. Religion ought to be liberated, not destroyed.
Also, I think a lot of the anarchists on this site are slowly starting to leave or become less active. Really sucks.
Whoa that's super cool, thanks for the link.
I think there's a number of anarchist-leaning folks who lurk here but don't speak up too much. We just need to never stop posting so they realize they're not alone :chonky-bear: :chonky-bear: :chonky-bear:
I can only speak for myself, but seeing as this place is the only sensible political forum around, I have nowhere else to go. I can take the general dismissive attitude towards anarchism as just part of the territory.
I keep contemplating posting here, as in 'if you build it they will come', but then again I have nothing to post, and at the same time I don't like feeling hugboxed.I don't know how to articulate my point here - the thing is the Marxism community is equally underutilised; despite the preponderance of ML on this site, they have fewer posts than in here. That might just be that they can chat about their views with impunity on the rest of the site, or it could just be a similar lack of desire to be pigeonholed
Hey, I’ve just signed up here and will hopefully be active, also religious and spiritual anarchism is a major interest for me as you might have picked up from my username, so this post seems as good a place as any to introduce myself and say hi :)
Edit: also thanks for the link will have to give it a read when I get a chance
Hello,
I am reminded by this: http://www.preparingyou.com/wiki/Home As a Christian, I am constantly learning where I can how to be one. So, I stumbled upon this website, and from there haven't found a more convincing take yet.
