Law enforcement agencies should be arresting the people doing those things
The problem here is that Durov is not helping them arrest these people. The whole issue started by him not complying with law enforcement requests.
I understand, and agree, that CP is being used as a boogeyman to manufacture consent for anti-encryption and anti-privacy laws. However, I think it's also unreasonable to allow a platform at the scope of telegram to get away with no issues because of what essentially boils down to "muh freedoms".
I wouldn't support a total encryption ban, or some similar comically idiotic policy. But the whole thing with telegram also irks me. At least force the people hiding something shady to jump through actual hoops instead of just downloading a glorified server-client app.
I'm going to assume you mean basically just CP for the something shady part in your final comment. Because the government and many people in many countries would call this conversation shady. They'd call unionization shady. Some might call Israel supporters doxxing anti-genocide protesters shady (I agree on that one). And of course I hope we all call the CP servers shady.
My only issue with all of this is how do you force right-wing, neoliberal, progressively more and more fascistic countries like the US, FR, UK, GE, etc. to ONLY target CP servers and never purposely target the (to sweep broadly here) "political severs." If it could be done that the genocidal hogs and CP hoarders get roped in- fantastic. But why the hell would France or the US bother with the first (or the latter, to be honest)? They'd surely be happy to dig into the asses of all those unionizing people though because "domestic terrorism! Sabotage!" or whatever other BS they can milk.
I guess my issue is I just look to how laws in "the west" have historically been applied against "shady" individuals. This stuff always disproportionately ends up being used against the left. That's why for practical reasons I feel like I have to support (actual) free speech because if there are laws that can in any sort of feasible way be used to restrict the left, then they will be. It's practically an inevitability when dealing with liberals and their "both sidesing." Some workers discussing fucking up their anti-union boss's machinery is seen the same as Nazis planning to mass murder people... actually they probably think it's worse somehow to do sabotage.
I was referring to criminal activities with the shady stuff. Thankfully I haven't come across cp on telegram, but I know for a fact that there's drug deals and refund services there. I wouldn't be surprised if it also helped human trafficking cases.
I don't care about people buying drugs or scamming amazon, but at the same time I can't support telegram helping all these malicious actors (whether its petty crime, cp, neonazis, etc) just because it can also be useful to leftists. Its scale and easy of use has something offputting, at least to me. We should also remember that it's not some tool that was gifted to the left, it's just an app made by a capitalist that acquired French citizenship.
My thoughts are also incomplete because taken to the extreme you just have to ban all encryption, which is something I'm against, so I don't really know what can really be done.
The problem here is that Durov is not helping them arrest these people. The whole issue started by him not complying with law enforcement requests.
I understand, and agree, that CP is being used as a boogeyman to manufacture consent for anti-encryption and anti-privacy laws. However, I think it's also unreasonable to allow a platform at the scope of telegram to get away with no issues because of what essentially boils down to "muh freedoms".
I wouldn't support a total encryption ban, or some similar comically idiotic policy. But the whole thing with telegram also irks me. At least force the people hiding something shady to jump through actual hoops instead of just downloading a glorified server-client app.
I'm going to assume you mean basically just CP for the something shady part in your final comment. Because the government and many people in many countries would call this conversation shady. They'd call unionization shady. Some might call Israel supporters doxxing anti-genocide protesters shady (I agree on that one). And of course I hope we all call the CP servers shady.
My only issue with all of this is how do you force right-wing, neoliberal, progressively more and more fascistic countries like the US, FR, UK, GE, etc. to ONLY target CP servers and never purposely target the (to sweep broadly here) "political severs." If it could be done that the genocidal hogs and CP hoarders get roped in- fantastic. But why the hell would France or the US bother with the first (or the latter, to be honest)? They'd surely be happy to dig into the asses of all those unionizing people though because "domestic terrorism! Sabotage!" or whatever other BS they can milk.
I guess my issue is I just look to how laws in "the west" have historically been applied against "shady" individuals. This stuff always disproportionately ends up being used against the left. That's why for practical reasons I feel like I have to support (actual) free speech because if there are laws that can in any sort of feasible way be used to restrict the left, then they will be. It's practically an inevitability when dealing with liberals and their "both sidesing." Some workers discussing fucking up their anti-union boss's machinery is seen the same as Nazis planning to mass murder people... actually they probably think it's worse somehow to do sabotage.
So, that's my incomplete thoughts on that stuff
I was referring to criminal activities with the shady stuff. Thankfully I haven't come across cp on telegram, but I know for a fact that there's drug deals and refund services there. I wouldn't be surprised if it also helped human trafficking cases.
I don't care about people buying drugs or scamming amazon, but at the same time I can't support telegram helping all these malicious actors (whether its petty crime, cp, neonazis, etc) just because it can also be useful to leftists. Its scale and easy of use has something offputting, at least to me. We should also remember that it's not some tool that was gifted to the left, it's just an app made by a capitalist that acquired French citizenship.
My thoughts are also incomplete because taken to the extreme you just have to ban all encryption, which is something I'm against, so I don't really know what can really be done.