I escaped the Reddit regime a little while ago. I consider myself a marxist-leninist-MZT. Vegetarian and vegan for a few years. I've a lot of thoughts on how marxism and veganism are connected. Never wrote them down. I'd like to start smth like a club for marxist vegans to develop our own proletarian theory. Most vegan theory I found is either openly bourgeois (Francione is a literal TERF) or revisionist (anti-China, anarchist, libertarian). How about fixing this?
But it's not same, substance is mostly damaging, meat is healthy and I love it while I dislike most of plant based food except fruits and some vegetables.
I don't think it's particularly healthy to think of the life of your fellow animal as disposable simply for the sake of your own pleasure.
I don't see other apes or Grizzly for that matter thinking about fish while they're eating it.
I feel for apes, canines, reptiles and of course endangered species, obviously no one should touch them. But we simply eat livestock and fish and did since prehistory, it's normal.
Are you really going to turn to Travis the chimpanzee for your moral compass?
That one was on drugs. My moral compass would be bear, don't try to present me like an Orca or Mantis in terms of it.
Are you saying that sober apes are known for being good role models?
Orangutans are pretty chill, also gorillas if you don't anger them.
So basically, because orangutans are "pretty chill", and they can catch and eat fish without it causing them any apparent moral distress, it's OK for human beings to eat fish, too...? Isn't that sort of circular reasoning? And why should orangutans' conception of morality have any impact on humans', anyway?
In any case, my own stance is that the idea that some people deserve suffering and "that's just the way it is", necessitates equating those people with animals — often explicitly — and the indoctrination that animals are a category of creature deserving of violence and subjugation, starts on a child's plate.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about?
I mentioned Orangutans and Gorillas just because you implied all apes are bad. Orangutans are some of the most chill creatures and you're presenting simply eating a fish equal to Orca taking a seal, torturing it on and on for hours by playing waterpolo with it(while it's still alive) before ditching it's body after it took parts it likes the most, or Mantis pulling off limbs of it's prey, decapitating it's own mate and eating it. Yes, eating fish is perfectly ok for every carnivore and omnivore species on the planet. Nature isn't a fucking Disney movie.
Well, nazis for example pretty much deserve suffering, wouldn't you agree? Who even mentioned humans?
Someone has to kill and prepare your meat, though, and it's mentally and physically unhealthy. Don't forget the worker.
There are people who's job it or live at village and do it frequently without any problems. I'm from Balkans, here is weird if you don't eat meat(or at least fish), it's completely normal to us.
Based on the mental illnesses that are associated with slaughter work, I don't believe they do it "without any problems". They are able to cope with the harm they're doing to themselves, but fundamentally we all empathize with animals and it hurts to hurt them.
I've killed animals. I fucking hate it and I won't do it again if I can help it. It hurts.
Don't do it if you hate it. But here in Balkans it's completely normal for livestock and fish, including hunting, it's day to day life in village.
Don't get me wrong because we obviously hate poachers and there's always an uproar when innocent wild animals are harmed or endangered, but eating livestock is normal, people get weirded out when you don't.
A lot of unhealthy things have been normal at different points in history, so I don't really see your point.
You just called my entire peninsula unhealthy because we eat livestock meat...
I'll tell you what's unhealthy: settlers going to American continent and almost exterminating Bisons and various other animals Natives consumed, killing and wasting millions of Turkeys yearly for a racist holiday, bringing a predator which kills for sport to every overseas continent which resulted in extermination of dozens of species of native animals and of course poaching Elephants, Rhinos and various other endangered animals in Africa.
I'll start by saying death to US. I hope I didn't imply that your home is somehow less healthy than the Great Satan!
What I'm saying the people who are forced to kill animals, whether for survival or income, are harming their mental health. I am not saying that they are unhealthy; they can cope with it as long as they don't have a lot of other stressors in their life, people who kill animals can live healthy, productive lives.
But, based on the rates of mental illness associated with slaughter work that far exceed other lines of production work, there's clearly something unhealthy about killing animals. People who kill animals are more likely to experience health complications, like PTSD and addiction and suicide.
We can analyze the material reality of common practices in a scientific manner. Notice I never brought up morality. I am speaking purely about the impact on health. Smoking certain plants is culturally significant in some cultures, too, but it's also unhealthy. Plenty of people who smoke never experience health problems, but the reality of the health impacts don't change just because people did it for 1000s of years.
Have you ever killed an animal? I killed a rabbit once. Did you know they scream? I don't think that was good for me.
Forced is another thing altogether, mass slaughterhouses aren't humane because the animals suffer in them even before you're killed. Here it's just regular farming from villages, no one is forced to it, it's just day to day life.
Then about smoking, regular cigarettes destroy health altogether and it's just baffling to me that they are legal while weed which actually helps with cancer and effects of treating it is illegal in most places.
I kill bugs all the time idk if it counts, but I did when I was younger with my brother, it was for grill if I remember correctly. Did you kill the rabbit for food or? Because there is a certain species of rabbit which has a valuable wool(I forgot which one exactly) and they literally torture them by pulling off their wool while they're alive which is disgusting.