cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/2089998

Archived version: https://archive.ph/X5D30
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230830081318/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66654134

  • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
    ·
    1 year ago

    I don't know what these things are. Are you suggesting that there's an exception for crimes committed against these people?

    • Cynetri (he/any)@midwest.social
      ·
      1 year ago

      Total exceptions? No. But many states still allow people to get reduced sentences via the gay panic defense for killing LGBTQ people. That, and some politicians are encouraging hate crimes against them with hateful rhetoric about them being "groomers" and whatnot.

      • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
        ·
        1 year ago

        But many states still allow people to get reduced sentences via the gay panic defense for killing LGBTQ people.

        You say that like it's explicitly allowed by the state. It isn't. It's a legal defense lawyers use in court. Whether or not it's legitimate is determined by a jury.

        • Cynetri (he/any)@midwest.social
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          You say that like it's explicitly allowed by the state.

          It is. Keeping it a valid legal defense is a policy choice. Some states banned it, they chose to. Other states have not, they decided not to. That's politics.

          • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
            ·
            1 year ago

            But it's not a valid legal defense. You cannot ban a lawyer from putting it forward as a legal defense.

            • GarbageShoot [he/him]
              ·
              1 year ago

              You literally can, just like any number of other valid bases for objections to arguments put forward. If the judge rules it to be such a defense, it would be struck from the record and the jury instructed to disregard it, and if the lawyer keeps on it, they would be held in contempt of court. Furthermore, if it is plainly a case of such a defense and the judge lets it fly, the prosecution can claim mistrial.

              Perhaps there are other ways of banning it, but that is the obvious one in the American framework.

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      There literally is in most states, depending on the judge:

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense

      • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
        ·
        1 year ago

        There literally is not. That's a legal defense that lawyers use. It doesn't instantly exonerate the crime.

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          depending on the judge

          To treat it as a valid legal defense is an abomination and judges have countless times ruled in favor of the perpetrator on just the basis of that defense.

          • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            That's not a legal exception, that's just a corrupt judge. Do you not have those in Canada?

            • mayo_cider [he/him]
              ·
              1 year ago

              Do you understand how precedent works in the US court system? I mean, I fully agree that US judges and laws are corrupt, but it doesn't change the fact that those laws and judges are still upheld by the state

              • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Yes I understand. I asked a question, would you like to answer it? Did you not notice that people use this same defense in other countries?

                • mayo_cider [he/him]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Yes, there are homophobic laws elsewhere as well, it doesn't change the status quo in US

                  • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    We've already been over this several times now, there are no homophobic laws in the US.

                    The topic of conversation is a warning to "queer" people about going into the US, as if it is more dangerous than the country they're leaving. So yes, it matters.