I guess it's a chicken and egg with Russia militarizing and nato, but it seems awfully trusting to dismantle the nato security apparatus against Russia in exchange for a pinky promise of peace.
But you have to see, then, that the US wasn't interested in deescalation. Peaceful options abounded, they won the cold war, their defeated enemy was literally asking to be admitted into an alliance and move forward as collaborators and they didn't take the offer.
They said they would stop expanding NATO towards Russia and then did so anyway.
There's only one realistic interpretation of that approach if you are Russia. You'd need to respond because the enemy you just lost to is making it obvious they aren't finished with you yet.
So then we're back full circle, where I say it's obviously not a moral question because these are states making calculations about their interests, and that history didn't start in 2022 and that deescalation was an option before this happened. Escalating was a policy decision that the US made. That's not Russian apologia, that's the history and context we went over in a good faith dialogue with each other. Ukraine is suffering because of US policy decisions. This doesn't justify an invasion, it doesn't make Putin a good guy, but the conflict was avoidable and the US decided to risk it.
If you recall, this entire chain is challenging the idea that the war is because of 'Russian aggression.' Would it be fair to say we have demonstrated that it's more nuanced than that?
I guess it's a chicken and egg with Russia militarizing and nato
Not a "chicken and egg problem" at all. NATO was created in 1949. Warsaw pact was created in 1955. USSR tried to join NATO in 1954. USSR made their own military pact only after getting rejected NATO membership, and seeing that West Germany was allowed in only 10 years after the holocaust. If NATO was willing to let "former" nazis like Adolf Heusinger into positions of power within NATO, while rejecting the USSR's overtures at joining, then it was obvious that NATO all along was not really interested in allowing socialist countries into collective security. Because NATO was always about bourgeois security against socialism, which the USSR was the face of.
Nuclear escalation wasn't a "chicken and egg problem" either. USA developed nuclear weapons first.
I guess it's a chicken and egg with Russia militarizing and nato, but it seems awfully trusting to dismantle the nato security apparatus against Russia in exchange for a pinky promise of peace.
But you have to see, then, that the US wasn't interested in deescalation. Peaceful options abounded, they won the cold war, their defeated enemy was literally asking to be admitted into an alliance and move forward as collaborators and they didn't take the offer.
They said they would stop expanding NATO towards Russia and then did so anyway.
There's only one realistic interpretation of that approach if you are Russia. You'd need to respond because the enemy you just lost to is making it obvious they aren't finished with you yet.
So then we're back full circle, where I say it's obviously not a moral question because these are states making calculations about their interests, and that history didn't start in 2022 and that deescalation was an option before this happened. Escalating was a policy decision that the US made. That's not Russian apologia, that's the history and context we went over in a good faith dialogue with each other. Ukraine is suffering because of US policy decisions. This doesn't justify an invasion, it doesn't make Putin a good guy, but the conflict was avoidable and the US decided to risk it.
If you recall, this entire chain is challenging the idea that the war is because of 'Russian aggression.' Would it be fair to say we have demonstrated that it's more nuanced than that?
NATO literally came first though lol
Not a "chicken and egg problem" at all. NATO was created in 1949. Warsaw pact was created in 1955. USSR tried to join NATO in 1954. USSR made their own military pact only after getting rejected NATO membership, and seeing that West Germany was allowed in only 10 years after the holocaust. If NATO was willing to let "former" nazis like Adolf Heusinger into positions of power within NATO, while rejecting the USSR's overtures at joining, then it was obvious that NATO all along was not really interested in allowing socialist countries into collective security. Because NATO was always about bourgeois security against socialism, which the USSR was the face of.
Nuclear escalation wasn't a "chicken and egg problem" either. USA developed nuclear weapons first.