The most obvious stupid scam ever conceived and they actually managed to hook a bunch of actual corporations
Square Enix, Nickelodeon, Coke, KFC, and more fell for this shit while regular people were laughing about how obvious a con it was.
Really puts into question the capitalist myth of the genius entrepreneur and the idea that these corporate types are rich because they are smart or deserving in some way.
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I don't think they would actually.
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The problem here is that the vast majority of crypto trading occurs "off chain". Meaning via intermediaries like Coinbase, which trade on internal databases, exactly like existing securities. The history of crypto is full of examples of exchanges doing exactly this sort of market manipulation. Not to mention insider trading, front running their order books and maintaining fractional reserves.
The elimination of fraud would remain a social and legal issue, the technology used to keep the books just isn't important. If the government can't prevent a specific type of fraud now, it wouldn't be able to with tokenized securities either.
You're talking about cryptocurrencies, but Zuberi is proposing making public stocks serialized and tracking trades on a public ledger. While that would prevent a lot of market abuse, its effectiveness is of course why it would never be implemented.
I understand that, but my point I perhaps didn't make very well is that the implementation on a public ledger is only as good as the legislation which forces you to use said ledger in good faith. If I can say "I'll hold a bunch of tokens in trust and you can all trade them virtually on my system, then we'll settle up later" then the tech being used to maintain the ledger doesn't matter. That's how crypto works because otherwise you'd need to pay exorbitant transaction fees for every trade because of the expense of maintaining the security of the network, I don't get how you'd stop this from being an issue with stocks.
Surely that legislation is the exact thing Zuberi is proposing? If course it would need to be free of loopholes to be effective. I think we're all agreeing
Edit lol I just saw Zuberi other comments. Zub bby this is a fantasy thought experiment that could maybe be used by some sort of far future coalition of anarchist collectives or something, it will never and could never be made into reality here
I agree, but if the anti fraud measures are legal in nature then what purpose does blockchain serve? You could take a traditional database and make it cryptographically signed and publicly verifiable and it wouldn’t need miners burning as much electricity as Ireland to maintain it because it could be maintained by organisations bound by regulations. It wouldn’t be blockchain though, or it would be a blockchain so distorted the name would cease to mean anything.
Basically if the political will existed to legislate a secure blockchain solution, the blockchain part would be necessarily redundant. That’s what I’m trying to say.
Of course it’s all academic because the political will doesn’t exist and as you allude to, capitalism will need to fall before it does.
I think this idea got started by people who don't trust the government and can see themselves being robbed from by financial institutions blatantly breaking and abusing rules, but they don't have the ideological framework to imagine something substantially different/trustworthy so they invent this technology as a bandaid fix for the specific problem of information transparency.
And the new ethereum proof of stake uses a fraction of the energy but is still considered a block chain.
Absolutely, it’s tech-fetishism (in the sense of commodity fetishism) combined with capitalist realism. They identify a very real problem, but they cannot believe that it is inherent to capitalism and can only be solved by its ending.
Edit: Proof of stake had inherent problems also, it removes the “fairness” of verification and ties the ability to do so directly to one’s investment.
The best way to defeat capitalists is by playing the game where the capitalist can buy a lot more game pieces and can fail many more times than you can.
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"Hey capitalists, I made this cool thing to prevent you from stealing! Do you like it?
...why is my car making this weird noi-"
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Just to entertain the idea for a second that some shitcoin will actually level the global market. Let's ignore the fact that there are plenty of ways to re-annonymize coins and all the other problems with it.
What would compel any holder of large capital to use it? What is the fulcrum of power that will stop these entities from using fiat currencies? If the global system right now benefits them so much (it does) why would they give it up and use something that doesn't?
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This is fanfiction. There's no analysis of power, no analysis of capital, no understanding of the overwhelming problems with any blockchain technology.
And worse it's boring. If you're going to be a leftist crank about some weird thing, do aliens or something
Now hold on, block chains are totally capable of running programs. Smart contracts are a thing. This could be implemented, technically, in some fantasy world where things happen for no reason. Cranking about cryptography is cool and good.
Dont forget that in your fantasy world the program code would have to have 0 bugs!
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The periphery will simply align themselves with the existing Chinese pole of influence, why the need for a block chain? Surely a totally new economic technology would take decades to legislate, specify, code, verify, and implement? There's no way it happens as a reaction to something, it would be like a space race level of effort
This would be an objectively good thing for retail traders in a few ways, though there'd be some hilarious issues from making stocks into digital bearer bonds - what do you do if I steal your Google coins, or if you die while holding them in a wallet with a lost key? Any answer that's not "too bad lol" can only mean giving terrifying power to a DAO - or right back to the SEC
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Maybe not over the stock market, but they certainly had enough to send a lot of web 3 nerds running
Why wouldn’t the fraud just take the place of laundering through the purchase of material goods and reectchange of them?
Had me going until you let the mask drop and started talking like HackerNews.
Under a capitalistic system, it's going to make it worse and it already has. Same deal with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Same promises of making things for fair and just and all the poors around the world having little paper wallets and being their own banks until rich assholes bought majority stakes there too.
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People that can't afford to gamble away what little they have being invited into the casino! Wholesome!
Seriously, your cryptobro shit is getting more and more mask-off.
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It's an associated grift peddled by the same people. The difference is that one is a currency and the other is a purchased space on a ledger that is often associated with a picture or some other supposed virtual asset with a vague promise that rent-seeking profitability may happen when it becomes universally recognized as a virtual asset, which hasn't happened and may never happen because each ledger is independent and there is no obligation for them to recognize other tokens.
Also, your "all electricity use is equal" claim is utter steaming bullshit.
https://www.wired.com/story/nfts-hot-effect-earth-climate/
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Don't buy into that old casino! Buy into this new casino with even less regulation, oversight, or accountability!
You're just being an obnoxious grifter at this point, and your pitch is approaching messianic levels of cynical.
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To summarize, again, you're playing the "how do you do, fellow leftists" card while telling people that the answer to capitalism's casino is capitalism's newer and less regulated and more volatile casino.
You are a clown.
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You back that up with nothing except vibes and messianic messages of Revolutionizing The World(tm) to try to get people here to buy in and hold the bag.
I wish you were talking about nothing. You're trying to seek rent on people here and get them to buy into your grift. That disgusts me.
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You're being a liar, again. Capitalists are buying into your "revolutionary world changing" grift faster and more aggressively than anyone else, right now.
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You're claiming that the answer to capitalism is more capitalism, this time from a shiny newer casino that is already majority owned and operated and pushed by ruling class capitalists and that will somehow topple capitalism and bring about an unspecified utopia that you've been vague about so far but have used techbro language to try to dazzle people with your bullshit.
https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2022/05/04/cryptocurrency-energy/
You are either ignorant, a cynical liar, or both. In any case, you're a disgusting clown trying to get people to buy into your particular grift.
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You're claiming that the answer to capitalism is more capitalism, this time from a shiny newer casino that is already majority owned and operated and pushed by ruling class capitalists and that will somehow topple capitalism and bring about an unspecified utopia that you've been vague about so far but have used techbro language to try to dazzle people with your bullshit.
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I guess I was mistaken. I do feel like I remember hearing about web3 in a p2p context before that but regardless.
I still think we should take it back
embarassingly naive. The only thing Blockchain technology is good at is fleecing people who still havn't realized its a failed technology with no future beyond money laundering and scamming rubes
Actually block chain powers the world's best version control system used by millions of people, it was really revolutionary
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20 quid on yes
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Comrade Amogus commends you for your excellent sleuthing, surpassing even Comrade Amogus this time around!
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This is the most unbelievable thing I've heard in a while
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They also drastically multiply the amount of wasted electricity and dump a lot more carbon. It's a solution trying to make its own problem to solve that also burns the planet that much faster.
EDIT: NFTs are typically minted with Ethereum, which spends a lot of electricity already. If you want to dream up a magical version of a rent-seeking token that doesn't do that, that's cute, but it's not what's happening with rich techbros trying to get people to buy ledger spaces that are associated with ugly cartoons.
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There's a difference between using electricity and using more electricity, especially a lot more.
EDIT: NFTs are typically minted with Ethereum, which spends a lot of electricity already. If you want to dream up a magical version of a rent-seeking token that doesn't do that, that's cute, but it's not what's happening with rich techbros trying to get people to buy ledger spaces that are associated with ugly cartoons.
I get that you want to pull a "how do you do, fellow leftists" and peddle internet funny money and/or rent-seeking magic ledger spaces here. It's not cool. Stop it.
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They are ledger spaces on a database that are often but not necessarily associated with pictures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwMjPWOailQ
You're a fucking clown, and the circus isn't selling enough tickets for you to stay in town. Leave.
i'm stealing that line
that's fucking beautifull
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You're now playing the "NEW EXCITING GRIFT IS INEVITABLE YOU CAN'T STOP IT" card. Clowns like you were peddling real estate in Zucc's Metaverse(tm)(r) the same way.
At least start juggling or ride a unicycle while you're here, clown.
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No market manipulation among NFTs. NEVER EVER!
https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/24/22995107/us-arrest-charges-crypto-nft-rug-pull-frosties-ethan-nguyen-andre-llacuna
You're wasting time here when you could be ripping off more credulous people in your home instance. Pack up your crypto-carnival already. Whine all you want that it's pedantically "not crypto" when you don't want it to be, but that's just arguing about whether the shit is liquid or solid after a particularly bad stomach ache.
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You're claiming that the answer to capitalism is more capitalism, this time from a shiny newer casino that is already majority owned and operated and pushed by ruling class capitalists and that will somehow topple capitalism and bring about an unspecified utopia that you've been vague about so far but have used techbro language to try to dazzle people with your bullshit.
nft aren't actually pictures, they are a hyperlink to a picture that can be changed or removed at any time with no recourse
https://www.wired.com/story/nfts-hot-effect-earth-climate/
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I linked that article as an example of the waste emitted from related processes.
I'm certain you're being a bad faith peddler at this point, because again you're sidestepping the energy costs of your magical world saving ledger position sales tokens.
For people watching this comment chain, this is a decent starter summary of the grift that the above grifter is trying to peddle here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwMjPWOailQ
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The grift is okay because there are magical theoretical grifts that totally bypass those problems, pinkie promise, just around the corner as they always are.
My point is you're a clown and peddling your rent-seeking bullshit here is disgusting.