Thank you for telling me, an autistic person, that I'm wrong about an autistic trait and that I'm wrong for finding offense in people making fun of said trait. Where would I be without NT "allies"?
No one of my acquaintance has ever made the mistake of thinking I'm neurotypical, nor am I interested in being your ally and I don't think this posture you've chosen to take is doing much for your cause
Oh am I being too uppity? Do I need to be civil when telling people not to be ableist? Or should I just shut up about casual ableism because it might scare off the NTs who don't want to self crit?
Just because some traits are exhibited by autistic people doesn’t mean that all people who do are autistic. The context can change whether we judge something as acceptable or not.
I am not going to try to a layperson diagnosis of Musk so I can’t say whether he’s on the spectrum or not, but he at least has demonstrated that he’s a cruel, abusive, emotionally manipulative, immature manchild. These are not traits that are intrinsic to autism, he’s genuinely just a shit human being on every level. Some traits do lead to autistic people having reactions with some similarities, but I don’t wanna just jump to the defense of Musk because a thing he’s done is similar to the behavior of an autistic person. There is potential for a ton of behavioral overlap between autistic people and allistic people, and for behaviors exhibited by people with a whole host of other causes.
I am on the spectrum and while I’m loathe to do the “I’m X and I don’t find Y offensive” thing I just don’t see it. Just stating my perspective, I’m genuinely sorry that this stuff has bothered you, but I am trying to seek understanding yknow?
I am not going to try to a layperson diagnosis of Musk
He has literally said he's autistic.
but I am trying to seek understanding yknow
Have you never had your trust betrayed? Even for something small it can feel like absolute shit. It's literally about trouble regulating emotion, a very common autistic trait.
I find it kind of worrying that you’re being more charitable to Elon Musk than someone who has stated outright that they’re trying to come to an understanding of your viewpoint.
You say as you're doing it.
Where I then say I am giving my perspective and this doesn’t make me inherently correct for being autistic. I’m explicitly stating that I’m not more correct or virtuous or something by stating my experience with autism and how it has influenced my own, personal perspective.
Have you never had your trust betrayed? Even for something small it can feel like absolute shit. It's literally about trouble regulating emotion, a very common autistic trait.
Oh yes I have, and I understand it on the small and large scale betrayals. I have had the course of my life inexorably altered by the personal betrayal and lies of people I thought were close friends, who were also autistic. They were autistic people, who also happened to be scumfucks that were emotionally manipulative liars.
Which seems like the case with Musk. He is a condemnable piece of shit, and I don’t think his behaviors can be solely attributed to being ND, because as demonstrated by plenty of people here and around the world, there are plenty of good supportive kind neurodivergent people who may exhibit the same traits of autism as Musk, but are not reprehensible shitheads like this billionaire apartheid profiteering scumbag.
I never said his entire personality is attributed to autism. I'm talking about the specific behavior mentioned in this post. He didn't do anything manipulative or abusive here, he got mad then didn't talk to her for the rest of the day while he was still feeling that emotion.
trying to come to an understanding of your viewpoint.
Sorry. I just fixed my comment before seeing your reply.
My point though is that he has demonstrated publicly a history of emotional manipulation and abuse and while it could be a reaction based on a sense of betrayal triggering a response as you posit, it could also be more manipulation and a way to excuse it by using the game
Maybe I’m completely off base here but I feel like he doesn’t warrant the full interrogation and depth of understanding we’re granting him here. I personally have experienced the sense of betrayal and emotional upheaval at the tiniest things before, and I have been with (actual) good friends who have done so as well. I am willing to come to an understanding with them so we can treat each other with respect and good will. I have no compulsion to do so for Musk 🤷
Also aside, I variety of responses you’ve gotten here doesn’t mean it’s only NT folks who disagree, and I don’t think we need to approach a disagreement with comrades in a space with a not insignificant proportion of ND people with hostility. Though I fuckin know how tiring it can be having to re-explain your thoughts multiple times, I don’t think the reaction is the best for fostering that understanding
it could also be more manipulation and a way to excuse it by using the game
Or it could be that the fact that it's coming from him is being used to excuse ableist behavior. You could swap in literally any other autistic person who would have reacted that way, and the ableism in this thread would still apply.
That’s literally why I’m talking about context though. We could substitute him for another neurodivergent person and there would be a different response because they’re most likely not a multibillionaire apartheid profiteering emotionally manipulative abusive scumbag. I’d be more likely to label these responses as ableist behavior if there weren’t also a history of other reasons why the incident might be Musk being shitty to his partner rather than him having an emotional reaction caused by his neurodivergence. He’s had multiple divorces & breakups for the exact reason of him being enormously shit to his partners.
I don’t see how you can claim that with authority when there is not insignificant behavioral overlap, especially when (presumably) you do not know the man.
If someone says your (general "you", not you "you") words make them uncomfortable, you should be understanding regardless. Like I said in the first comment, Elon Musk won't see any of these comments, but comrades who have had similar experiences will. Clearly it struck a nerve with me and some of the responses to me made it even worse. Stuff like this (and this has happened before) makes this site not feel like a safe space for me as an autistic person.
Should we not think he's a piece of shit for berating and casually firing employees
There is a big gap between that and getting mad and not talking to someone for a bit.
At some point I think it's necessary to distinguish to what degree parts of his behaviour are expressions of neurodivergence and to what degree they're expressions of simply being a bad person who has no interest in anything except his own whims and desires.
I do distinguish that, and in this case it's the former. It seems like other people are not able to distinguish that and are instead attributing everything to the latter.
spawns a struggle session 
Because I see people making fun of autistic traits. You think ableism requires a specific mention of a disability?
You saw someone saying they found certain traits obnoxious, ascribed those traits to all autistic people, then chose to take offense
Thank you for telling me, an autistic person, that I'm wrong about an autistic trait and that I'm wrong for finding offense in people making fun of said trait. Where would I be without NT "allies"?
No one of my acquaintance has ever made the mistake of thinking I'm neurotypical, nor am I interested in being your ally and I don't think this posture you've chosen to take is doing much for your cause
Oh am I being too uppity? Do I need to be civil when telling people not to be ableist? Or should I just shut up about casual ableism because it might scare off the NTs who don't want to self crit?
No. You're just wrong. But this is going nowhere so I'm disengaging. Be well comrade
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That's literally just a right wing talking point. Fuck off.
Just because some traits are exhibited by autistic people doesn’t mean that all people who do are autistic. The context can change whether we judge something as acceptable or not.
I am not going to try to a layperson diagnosis of Musk so I can’t say whether he’s on the spectrum or not, but he at least has demonstrated that he’s a cruel, abusive, emotionally manipulative, immature manchild. These are not traits that are intrinsic to autism, he’s genuinely just a shit human being on every level. Some traits do lead to autistic people having reactions with some similarities, but I don’t wanna just jump to the defense of Musk because a thing he’s done is similar to the behavior of an autistic person. There is potential for a ton of behavioral overlap between autistic people and allistic people, and for behaviors exhibited by people with a whole host of other causes.
I am on the spectrum and while I’m loathe to do the “I’m X and I don’t find Y offensive” thing I just don’t see it. Just stating my perspective, I’m genuinely sorry that this stuff has bothered you, but I am trying to seek understanding yknow?
He has literally said he's autistic.
Have you never had your trust betrayed? Even for something small it can feel like absolute shit. It's literally about trouble regulating emotion, a very common autistic trait.
I find it kind of worrying that you’re being more charitable to Elon Musk than someone who has stated outright that they’re trying to come to an understanding of your viewpoint.
Where I then say I am giving my perspective and this doesn’t make me inherently correct for being autistic. I’m explicitly stating that I’m not more correct or virtuous or something by stating my experience with autism and how it has influenced my own, personal perspective.
Oh yes I have, and I understand it on the small and large scale betrayals. I have had the course of my life inexorably altered by the personal betrayal and lies of people I thought were close friends, who were also autistic. They were autistic people, who also happened to be scumfucks that were emotionally manipulative liars.
Which seems like the case with Musk. He is a condemnable piece of shit, and I don’t think his behaviors can be solely attributed to being ND, because as demonstrated by plenty of people here and around the world, there are plenty of good supportive kind neurodivergent people who may exhibit the same traits of autism as Musk, but are not reprehensible shitheads like this billionaire apartheid profiteering scumbag.
I never said his entire personality is attributed to autism. I'm talking about the specific behavior mentioned in this post. He didn't do anything manipulative or abusive here, he got mad then didn't talk to her for the rest of the day while he was still feeling that emotion.
Sorry. I just fixed my comment before seeing your reply.
My point though is that he has demonstrated publicly a history of emotional manipulation and abuse and while it could be a reaction based on a sense of betrayal triggering a response as you posit, it could also be more manipulation and a way to excuse it by using the game
Maybe I’m completely off base here but I feel like he doesn’t warrant the full interrogation and depth of understanding we’re granting him here. I personally have experienced the sense of betrayal and emotional upheaval at the tiniest things before, and I have been with (actual) good friends who have done so as well. I am willing to come to an understanding with them so we can treat each other with respect and good will. I have no compulsion to do so for Musk 🤷
Also aside, I variety of responses you’ve gotten here doesn’t mean it’s only NT folks who disagree, and I don’t think we need to approach a disagreement with comrades in a space with a not insignificant proportion of ND people with hostility. Though I fuckin know how tiring it can be having to re-explain your thoughts multiple times, I don’t think the reaction is the best for fostering that understanding
Or it could be that the fact that it's coming from him is being used to excuse ableist behavior. You could swap in literally any other autistic person who would have reacted that way, and the ableism in this thread would still apply.
That’s literally why I’m talking about context though. We could substitute him for another neurodivergent person and there would be a different response because they’re most likely not a multibillionaire apartheid profiteering emotionally manipulative abusive scumbag. I’d be more likely to label these responses as ableist behavior if there weren’t also a history of other reasons why the incident might be Musk being shitty to his partner rather than him having an emotional reaction caused by his neurodivergence. He’s had multiple divorces & breakups for the exact reason of him being enormously shit to his partners.
Having context doesn't mean all of his behavior is because he's an asshole billionaire. Most of it is sure, but this isn't.
I don’t see how you can claim that with authority when there is not insignificant behavioral overlap, especially when (presumably) you do not know the man.
If someone says your (general "you", not you "you") words make them uncomfortable, you should be understanding regardless. Like I said in the first comment, Elon Musk won't see any of these comments, but comrades who have had similar experiences will. Clearly it struck a nerve with me and some of the responses to me made it even worse. Stuff like this (and this has happened before) makes this site not feel like a safe space for me as an autistic person.
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There is a big gap between that and getting mad and not talking to someone for a bit.
I do distinguish that, and in this case it's the former. It seems like other people are not able to distinguish that and are instead attributing everything to the latter.
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https://hexbear.net/comment/3953097