• ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I mean, how many wars have Russians started

      What, all of them, unanimously, assembling their bodies into a single collossal humanoid mass of flesh and bone? This is the problem with a nationalist worldview, you miss the actual dynamic driving the event. Which Russians?

        • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Then why are you talking about it in the same terms as naive nationalists who don't know materialism? It's some really sus shit to proclaim to know all this but then make zero effort to differentiate your rhetoric from the "inherently authoritarian ruzzian orcs" crowd, continuing to frame it as though people who happen to be born in a certain socially constructed polity are somehow inherently a problem, while arguing pretty unmaterialistically that Russians (not the Russian Federation, just Russians gestures vaguely) started the conflict in Ukraine rather than joining a conflict that had been ongoing for nearly a decade. I'm not saying you're not a materialist, but I am saying i detect latent nationalist brainworms.

            • Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml
              ·
              1 year ago

              Do you get as pedantic if I were to say “the Americans benefited from chattel slavery”

              Not the person you replied to, but I’d like to jump in on that question. Yes, we should be; do you think Black Americans benefited in any way from slavery?

                • xXthrowawayXx [none/use name]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  You didn’t say “America” though, you said “the Americans”:

                  Do you get as pedantic if I were to say "the Americans benefited from chattel slavery"

                  Versus

                  Saying that black Americans did not benefit from slavery, doesn't mean that America itself didn't benefit from slavery.

                  You had to change your language from the American people to the American state in order to be able to claim that people are putting words in your mouth because they’re not doing that and you conflate people and states all over this thread.

                  The thing people are trying to get you to not do is conflate people and states because that kind of rhetoric is inherently nationalistic and invites belief in a unified immutable polity where none exists.

                • Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  America itself didn’t benefit from slavery.

                  My point is perhaps best expressed as follows:

                  Nations are not communities and never have been. The history of any country, presented as the history of a family, conceals fierce conflicts of interest (sometimes exploding, most often repressed) between conquerors and conquered, masters and slaves, capitalists and workers, dominators and dominated in race and sex.

                  — Howard Zinn, A People’s History of the United States (1980)

                  When you frame your arguments in this nationalist way, you’re concealing these conflicts of interest. It would be clearer if you frame it in a way that specifies exactly who you mean.

    • Rod_Blagojevic [none/use name]
      ·
      1 year ago

      "Access to infrastructure that allows the movement of critical goods" isn't really captured by the phrase "land grab"

            • TraumaDumpling
              ·
              1 year ago

              you fucking dumb antisemitic piece of shit, Poland was occupied by the Nazis and was massacring Jews and other minorities. the USSR intervened to protect people and give themeselves buffer space for the future Nazi invasion of russia. If you are aiding Nazis your 'self determination' is less than worthless. A shitload of Polish citizens sought refuge in the USSR and a shitload more fought on their side against the Nazi collaborators. Literally look at the citations of the WIkipedia page for the occupation of poland, they cite Tadeusz Piotrowski constantly, who on his own wikipedia page is said to be regurgitating Polish nationalist right wing propaganda.

              Piotr Wróbel considers Piotrowski's works to be "highly polemical and controversial", similar to those by Richard C. Lukas and Marek Jan Chodakiewicz.[5] According to Ukrainian historian Andrii Bolianovskyi, Piotrowski's studies on the Ukrainian-Polish ethnic conflicts rely unilaterally on the way they were conceived and presented by Polish right-wing politicians and the underground press during World War II.[6]

              America hired and funded right wing and Nazi propaganda immediately after world war 2 to push "double genocide" narratives exactly like yours. You are ignorantly repeating debunked Nazi propaganda.

                • TraumaDumpling
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  the fucking nazis were literally racist against slavic people, they did not take prisoners during their invasions, they sent them to death camps. to suggest that the soviets and the nazis were allies is patently absurd, their ideologies are diametrically opposed and you can do literally any cursory research to confirm the opinions of the people involved. literally read anything the nazis wrote about the soviets at the time, or anything the soviets wrote about the nazis. other users have already provided the context for those agreements, which you ignore. The soviets had tried to establish treaties with the allies before the molotov-ribbentrop pact, which they refused. it was an act of desperation to give the USSR time to establish military production factories and supply lines before the war. to spin that into an alliance is simply irresponsible historiography.