I have a few questions on how to best behave to be as welcoming and inclusive as possible without sounding bad. I hope you guys don't hate me.
I'm just a straight male. Are my pronouns he/him? Is that how I should tell people? Do you actually tell them as you meet them ? Do I have to wait for a certain social cue ?
How about online. Should I tell people or have it on my personal profile somewhere?
And about respecting other people's pronouns. How do i figure them out ? Is it a big faux pas if I don't before I know them ? Is it a faux pas if I refer to someone I just met and I assumed to be male as he/him?
I've never seen anyone referring to anyone irl by non conventional pronouns. Is it an actual thing or is it currently being pushed to make the world a more inclusive place?
I'd love some help with all of this.
Cis allies usually put pronouns in their bios to show support and normalize the act itself of specifying then online. IRL since you are cis and I asume you look masculine there is no need to specify your pronouns.
Just whenever you meet someone and they tell you to talk to them in a specific way, just do it and respect their pronouns. Its easy. Most people dont care if you get it wrong the first times as long as you acknowledge your mistake and correct yourself, your brain will get used to it and you will not make the mistake later. That's the different between someone who is learning and an idiot purposefully misgendering someone.
BTW if you arent sure about someone elses pronouns, just ask them. Easy.
IRL since you are cis and I asume you look masculine there is no need to specify your pronouns.
I disagree with this. It's better not to assume or encourage people to assume pronouns. It's better to use they/them when you're not sure. Most of the time you can learn people's pronouns contextually, by hearing how other people refer to them.
Otherwise, it's better to use they/them unless you have evidence otherwise. Looks isn't evidence. It's not the worst thing to assume once and be wrong, but if you're aiming for inclusivity it's better to not assume
Yeah. Good point. But I think OP shouldn't worry about specifying his pronouns IRL, but what you say is a good general approach.
People who actually care about pronouns will tell you theirs.
Also it's literally the way you're supposed to refer to individuals of unknown gender.
just be careful not to de-gender someone who makes it known they have one and prefer particular pronouns.
Are my pronouns he/him?
Probably. Your pronouns are what you want them to be. If someone says "I saw shapis at the park yesterday, but he looked busy so I didn't say hi to him," are he and him what you want in those positions?
(I'm going to assume you're a he/him for the rest of this, but if you want something else let me know and I'll edit the post.)
Is that how I should tell people?
Yeah, you'd say "my pronouns are he/him."
Do you actually tell them as you meet them? Do I have to wait for a certain social cue?
In person, it comes up in group meetings where people are making an effort to be inclusive, typically gender diverse or far left crowds. Someone will mention it, or people will just start doing it. You don't have to be the first person to start adding pronouns. But if you're in a crowd with someone you know would appreciate it, it'd be nice to start it on your own (without singling them out).
The most awkward option is that you introduce yourself without pronouns, then it goes around the room and people start; in that case just pipe up and say yours are he/him.
How about online. Should I tell people or have it on my personal profile somewhere?
Having it in your profile online is a good idea. Online it's way more important, since it also combats "there are no girls on the internet."
And about respecting other people's pronouns. How do i figure them out? Is it a big faux pas if I don't before I know them? Is it a faux pas if I refer to someone I just met and I assumed to be male as he/him?
If someone has a gender presentation you can't figure out, ask. If you're pretty sure, guess. It's a minor faux pas to get it wrong, but it's within the realm of the inevitable awkwardness of human interaction, just say sorry once, correct yourself, and move on. Think of it as being as rude as accidentally stepping on someone's foot. (Think about how rude that'd be if you kept doing it though.)
I've never seen anyone referring to anyone irl by non conventional pronouns. Is it an actual thing or is it currently being pushed to make the world a more inclusive place?
It is very rare, but they're out there. People with really unconventional pronouns (I've met a fae/faer) are going to understand if you have to slow down when talking about them. Generally they're chosen by people whose gender identity is nonconventional enough that they're willing to put up with the hassle to get something that feels more right to them.
he and him what you want in those positions?
I had never stopped to think about this. I guess the answer in my partícular case is I literally don't care which ones they use. Hm. Not sure what that means.
Thank you for the detailed comment.
in my partícular case is I literally don't care which ones they use. Hm. Not sure what that means.
Some people don't have internal gender feelings and just go with whatever they were assigned at birth out of convenience. I actually started that way and slowly drifted to feeling like my assigned gender much later in life.
Other times, someone realizing that is the first sign they're trans. If you ask a group of trans people, that'll probably be some of their origin stories. But I don't think it's actually that common overall (trans people are rare!). So what I'd recommend to you, and the other five people reading this that identify with your statement, is that you all sit down and think about your gender feelings a bit, so the trans one can get on with her life.
But anyway, pronouns options for the "assigned male but I don't care" crowd are he/him, he/them, they/them, he/him/any, and any. For that last one, in a crowd where people are saying pronouns, you'd just say "any pronouns are fine". (Long time hexbears know I used to rock the he/him/any.)
seconding this. i started as not caring. realised im non-binary but still don't really care. pronouns don't really bother me, as for me, how other people view and refer to me doesn't really affect my internal feelings on my gender. obviously this isn't the case for all trans people, some definitely want to be seen and referred to as their self-id gender.
Many other answers emphasizing to be on the considerate side are good. I just want to add two things.
Some folks have said that when the way you present matches your pronouns, you have less need to offer them. Personally, I think it is good to offer them anyways when meeting new people. People don't always present exactly in a way that you might expect their pronouns to indicate. As one example among many, someone may present very femme but prefer they/them pronouns.
This also helps us (you and me both!) unlearn some of our learned gender associations and habits of inferring gender based on appearances. It can sometimes be unpleasant to deal with someone that's clearly trying to figure out their gender identity visually or by voice, etc - trans or not. For an extreme example, there are even cis people getting harassed about which bathroom they're using (the one aligning with their gender) based on reactionary assumptions.
Finishing up that topic, offering your own pronouns is also a way of letting others know it's okay to be more open around you, that you are a bit safer than the average person. This can be most impactful, imo, for people who are trans or questioning but who aren't out yet. A lot of folks are struggling at that point in their lives and it can really help to know who is safer.
My final thought is that when you don't know someone's identity, it's good to get in the habit of using their name or they/them. If it's a real person irl, then you'd still want to ask for pronouns soon-ish. Occasionally, they/them-ing someone can also become unpleasant, though usually it'll be obvious from context (e.g. someone who is trans and strongly prefers he/him might perceive continued they/them to be a form of harassing them). Grabbing pronouns soon-ish avoids any awkwardness.
Getting someone's pronouns wrong once really isn't too big of a deal. What's more important is how you react to being corrected and using what they ask you to going forward.
I still don't know a good way to ask people their pronouns. Or rather I haven't had to do it often so I don't have much practice still so I still feel weird. Sometimes I get nervous that asking someone their pronouns might even make them feel like they don't pass as the gender they want to present as. I've talked about this with people and the advice I've been given is that the best way to do it is to introduce yourself with your own pronouns. I still haven't really had much opportunity to do it so not sure how to make it flow conversationally but the idea is that you're giving everyone the opportunity to do the same plus it lets them know that you won't react poorly to hearing someone tell you their pronouns.
I've really only met one person who prefers they/them and a couple of she/they folks. The trans people I have met all pass well enough in my brain that I don't have to consciously try to use the correct pronoun. It just takes some effort to get used to.
Back in, say, 2016 or so there was a meme about "did you just assume my gender?" It was always a caricature and it seems like most people either want you to assume it or are okay if you get it wrong so long as you correct yourself once they correct you.
I still don't know a good way to ask people their pronouns.
in-person you can do this by offering yours when introduced. this protects binary trans people trying to use cultural indicators of gender from some abuse and normalizes the practice for non-conforming people, nicely resolving the competing accessibility needs of people trying to use existing gender norms and people outside them.
online you can ask your admin to do what hexbear does with display names and ban anyone being shitty about it.
If I've never heard anyone else use a specific pronoun for someone new or I otherwise don't know, I try to use they/them. Otherwise I use what others do.
And if someone does let you know that a person/themselves prefer a specific one, always say thanks (you can't be sorry for something you didn't know!) and do your best to remember for next time.
I also try to use genderless terms like "folks" or just "everyone" instead of "guys"
First off, thanks for asking and wanting to be more inclusive! :)
For your pronouns, you decide. If you typically go by "he/him" you can keep doing that, it's up to you.
Depending on the setting, people around you might all introduce themselves with their prefered pronouns, you can introduce yourself with your pronouns if you wish to whenever though.
Similar to how you might tell people a different name you prefer to go by. So if your given name was Nicholas but you prefere to go by "Nick," you might introduce yourself like, "Nice to meet you, I'm Nicholas, but just call me Nick." likewise, you can say something like, "Nice to meet you, I'm Nick, He/Him"
Online, it's fairly common now to have your pronouns in your profile or bio. Again, it's up to you if you want to put them in your bio or not. Some sites have actual places in the sign up screen or profile page to place your pronouns, it depends on the site/software.
It's rare for people to get offended IRL if you unintentionally mis-gender them. Most people will correct you politely in the same way they might if you called them by an incorrect name. So if you said, "Hey Nicholas, how are your classes going this semester?" they might say, "Oh, you can just call me Nick. Classes are going well so far, how about yours?"
Often people that know them will correct you politely too if you don't know and used the wrong pronouns. I've had it happen a few times over the years and everybody has always been very polite about it. I just quickly say, "oh sorry, my bad." and then just make sure to remember their pronouns going forward.
I personally have some family and friends that use they/them vs she/her or he/him. It's a thing for sure, we all support them and their pronouns. It's not very tough to get used to, and as long as you correct yourself if you make a mistake, nobody will be hurt. It's fundamentally about loving them and being inclusive and supportive.
Thank you for the comment I added he/him to my bio. Not sure if it's in the right place.
I wouldn't ask someone their pronouns as a conversation opener because it makes some folks uncomfortable. For example a trans person might wonder something like "Do they ask that of everybody? Do I not pass?" if "passing" is something they care about.
It's better to just correct mistakes when you make them. It's also just something you'll pick up automatically talking with people they know, and like here where the hypothetical person's pronouns are ambiguous you can fall back to they. And when taking to the person themselves you are going to be using you anyway.
This is why saying your pronouns even if you’re obviously cis is cool and good bc it normalizes it
Watch Princess Bride. Perfect that "as you wish". With genuine sincerity.
Perfect. You've had a fun movie experience (Inconceivable!) and you now know the perfect way to respond to someone who has asked you or corrected you regarding pronouns.
They may be acting facetious, but "guys" is a gendered term and some folks don't appreciate being referred to as a guy. Just like some people don't like being called "dude". But that's person to person, anyway. To answer your questions from my perspective (I'm a nonbinary millenial fyi)
Your pronouns are whatever feel reflective of your gender. If you feel that you're a cisgendered man (someone who aligns with their gender assigned at birth), then yeah he/him is probably accurate. It's whatever feels most authentic to you.
As for telling people your pronouns, I think it honestly would be really nice for more cisgender dudes to normalize that. It's pretty uncommon for men to do in my experience, and I think it would show that you want to be respectful of gender nonconforming folks. Also if you share first, it may actually help people to feel more comfortable around you, and then they'll likely share theirs so you won't have to ask.
As for pronouns irl I've only really met folks who go by he/him, they/them, or she/her. I am not really deep in the queer community, though, and I think it's more common to find folks who have other different pronouns in those spaces because they feel comfortable using them. It probably also depends on where you live. I live in a pretty queer-friendly town and so trans and other gender nonconforming folks make up a decent chunk of the population.
In conclusion though, I think doing all of the things you just asked about is really great and more men should do. Be a model for other dudes; get people comfy with it because if anyone else gets weird/hostile about it you are in a place of privilege to push back on that, and more of that is needed, especially in the political climate we are living in rn
u/t3hgrl on reddit:
I have some strong opinions on this topic. It really is the default to talk about a group of people and most people out there won’t be bothered by it. Does that mean it is no longer a gendered term? Absolutely not. We’ve defaulted to male pronouns to refer to all humans for a really really long time, and it has never gone the other way. Using female pronouns to talk about a group has always been belittling, and there’s no female equivalent of “guys.” One of my favourite lines for when a man tries to tell me it’s okay to use guys because it’s completely gender-neutral is to ask “oh okay, so do you f*ck guys?” (Works for “dude” as well by the way!)
Personally I’ve been trying to remove it from my lexicon and have been having luck with saying y’all, everyone, friends, you two (or three, or four, etc.), and fam. “Y’all” is also not at all local to me either but I’ve found a lot of people have been using it as somewhat of a silly alternative and it’s become more accepted (in Canada. Might be a bigger stretch in Ireland.) I appreciate hearing people work on removing “guys” from their use and it does actually stick out to me when someone refers to me as a “guy,” but I have never corrected anyone. I see this as a change I’m working on for my own language and am not shy about sharing why, and I see a lot of people working on that same change (especially in LGBTQ2+ communities) so I foresee “guys” becoming much less common in the future.
The female equivalent to "guys" would be "gals" imo.
Pronouns are largely used to refer to people in the third person. As such I will never declare my pronouns because they aren't for me to use, they're for other people to use to refer to me. As such they should use whatever pronouns deliver maximal clarity for the listener.
I will respect others' pronoun preferences because I'm not an asshole, but when people start trying to tell me that I'm being bigoted by not stating my own pronouns, they can fuck off.
Can you explain what it means to look and act male? And why you don't like having people ask yours?
How you look doesn't make you a man. You could literally have all those physical traits and be a woman or non-binary.
Why is it rude to confirm how you self identify? Is it that horrible being trans or non-binary that people shouldn't even confirm that you're cis? How do you think trans people feel when someone assumes their gender based on how they look?
shitposting
Wow we got the manliest man man over here! Women love him and he gets all the pussy!
Ofc the whinging about cis comes out. You're cis by the literal definition of the word. Get over it loser.
I'm not concerned. I'm just calling you out for being a moron and a transphobe. Your time will come lib.
You’re comment is so obviously the actual troll. Read before you comment such ridiculous things
I explained why
saying you're offended by people not assuming you are a man implies it's bad to be a different gender, or trans/nb. Idk why you are so scared of people confirming your gender. You are the biggest ❄ on the planet and i cannot wait until you melt.
I think you are the troll. You simply seem like a cis guy who (due to some discomfort) is trying way too hard to ensure everyone knows “I am a CIS MAN”
I'm 6'3, 250lbs, 6% bf and non-binary. Also my xad could beat up your dad
I'm sorry. You may be getting it all wrong because right now you just sound like and are acting like a big ol pussy.
Gonna have to call out the misogyny of calling someone a "pussy".
I am a straight male
Being straight doesn't impact what your pronouns are! Your gender, whether you are cis, non-binary, trans, or any other gender identity is what determines these pronouns.
are my pronouns he/him?
Probably but thats up to you. Usually pronouns are given in that order as a matter of standardisation for understanding where they go in a sentence. Ie "He is going to the store" or "it all comes down his choice." Obviously this leaves out some other gendered standard pronouns like formal Sirs and Ma'ams but for most conversation knowing she/her or they/them gets you most of the way there. For standard ones it might be intuitive but for people with neo-pronouns it helps a lot.
do you tell people when you meet them?
Sometimes. I try to do it more these days as a matter of course but usually I will give them when I'm in an environment where some people do and don't where no one does. They are in my email signatures and real social media bios though.
Online rules
At least on your profile somewhere. I like Hexbear's "no exceptions they will be in your name" policy, its better for uptake and helps people feel included.
figuring out others
If it isn't clear you could always ask. If you aren't a dick about it then it's usually fine. If you get corrected though the most respectful thing you could do is just say sorry and use the right ones from that point on.
non conventional pronouns
Yes people do use them, if you are in places that queer people go to or feel comfortable you are more likely to meet someone with them. I would argue its more polite to refer to them as neo pronouns but I also have boring ones so its not really my place to say. If you look around hexbear there are a couple of frequent posters with neo pronouns and I've known a few people irl to use neo pronouns as well.
