• RollaD20 [comrade/them, any]
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    People are calling Ukraine a nazi state because it is full of nazi apologists, is full of nazi symbolism, their national heroes are nazis, their military is full of nazis, they parade genocidal SS members in foreign governments, and so on. Plenty of people here speak on the tragedy that Ukrainians are experiencing but that doesn't mean you ignore the nazis, who at a minimum served as the tail 'wagging the dog' of the Ukrainian state escalating violence in the conflict with the DPR and LPR, cascading into the war.

    No one is saying Russia = communist. By that logic, Ukrainian history also would imply it as being communist, they have just as much a right to that legacy as Russia. Talking for myself, I am mostly horrified at the complete acceptance and triumphalism that nazis have received in the west in the past couple of years. I imagine most users of this site feel the same way. I repeatedly talk with people IRL about this conflict that goes into history and context for why Russia is not insane nor evil for this war, despite it still being a tragedy, and I get a lot of people who call me a putinbot, tankie, or some equivalent thought terminating cliche.

    I think a lot of people have chosen a side because we have not been meaningfully allowed a voice to advocate for peaceful diplomatic measures. Calls for peace and diplomacy are met with accusations of russian propaganda. Nazi membership is merely russian propaganda now. So, for many, these are the sides and you have to choose one or the other and some US leftists are choosing revolutionary defeatism, sometimes it has a more vulgar pro-russia/anti-nazi stance but it's wayy better than the vulgar pro-nazi stance lmao.

    • MoreAmphibians [none/use name]
      ·
      1 year ago

      they parade genocidal SS members in foreign governments, and so on.

      The Waffen-SS guy is a Ukrainian-Canadian. He was ratlined to Canada after WW2 (along with a lot of other Ukrainian Nazis). There are a huge number of monuments to Nazi collaborators in Canada. Modern Ukraine's only involvement with this specific Nazi is Zelensky applauding for him and Canada bringing him on to honor Ukraine.

      By that logic, Ukrainian history also would imply it as being communist, they have just as much a right to that legacy as Russia.

      Thanks for saying this. WW2 Ukraine did more to fight Fascism than any nation other than Russia. Ukrainians who fought against Fascism outnumber the Nazi collaborators by over 10 to 1. Ukraine did more to defeat the Nazis than all the western allies combined. It's shameful how modern Ukraine and the entire west idolize the collaborators and spit in the face of those who fought against the Nazis.

      • TheFriar@lemm.ee
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Not to mention, the far right nazi affiliated parties have never gotten more than 3% of the vote.

        Neo nazis and white supremacists and far right people are everywhere. To paint this entire conflict as “denazification” is literally just gobbling up party propaganda for the sake of making life more cut-and-dry for these peoples chosen political beliefs…which is exactly what they’re saying liberals are doing. Which—to be entirely fair—is true of liberals. But it’s also entirely true of these communists. Stupid team sports politics is stupid team sports politics.

        • TraumaDumpling
          ·
          1 year ago

          if nazis are no problem in ukraine, how did they continure the civil war after the peace agreements? why did they ban all opposition parties? why make speaking russian illegal? why does every fucking photo of the AFU have a Nazi symbol in it? if nazis only have 3% of the vote, how do they have 15% of the seats in parliament? please do some basic research, i found all of this with a google search, its not even hidden very well.

          https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf

          https://press.un.org/en/2022/ga12483.doc.htm

          https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14823.doc.htm

          https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946

          https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_14th_HRMMU_Report.pdf

          https://www.state.gov/reports/2018-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/ukraine/

          https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02/the-historian-whitewashing-ukraines-past-volodymyr-viatrovych/

          https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/white-supremacists-other-extremists-respond-russian-invasion-ukraine

          https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality-of-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-is-far-from-kremlin-propaganda/

          https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-s-got-a-real-problem-with-far-right-violence-and-no-rt-didn-t-write-this-headline/

          https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/azov-battalion

          https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-000653_EN.html

          https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY

          and for the record, if there was someone invading america to kill our nazis, i would support them also.

        • ZapataCadabra [he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          If Nazis hold top positions in the military and local governments and the national government continues to support and empower them, does it really matter if Nazi parties don't win elections? They get what they want anyways.