You can vote for everyone, so that no party feels left out.
I don't have a reason to vote for either a democratic candidate or a republican candidate.
It's simple as that, but since you're asking for an explanation:
The DNC has managed to convince me to vote for them up until 2020.
They promised a lot, but once they got into power, they walked back what they said and started talking about strategy and pragmatism. Legalizing marriage equality could cost the midterms. Cancelling student debt is too big of a risk to the economy right now. Healthcare will come gradually if we just make these concessions.
And now?
It's worse.
Biden's carcass barely skidded into the white house after fuckery in the primary, the same campaign promises trotted out from previous elections, and the utter shitshow of trump's presidency. For god's sake, it took mismanaging a pandemic to get the win.
Here we are now with people still suffering and dying from COVID, the dissolution of abortion rights, worsening climate disasters.
And the Democratic party can't even deliver on biden's campaign promise of financial relief. They're telling people to still go to work despite having covid symptoms. They're forcing trains to continue running without maintenance.
It took Thanatos to remove Diane Feinstein from office because nobody else with power in the party had the political will.
And that's what it comes down to. The democratic party doesn't have the will to make things better because it doesn't benefit them.
Why should I vote for them if they won't benefit me or the people I care about? What material conditions would I expect them to improve?
I'll vote in local elections and I'll continue what I'm doing in my community, but as I said, I won't vote for a candidate who doesn't give me a reason to vote for them.
By this point people Dont vote for Democrats for progress, but just for survival since Republicans have gone full fascist
But what about the people here in this thread who said why they're not voting for democratic politicians?
Do you not consider our actions informed or motivated by survival?
Do you personally believe voting for Biden in 2024 would improve my chances for survival? You're talking a lot about what other people believe, but what do you believe?
Do you think the democratic party is doing its best to fight fascism? Do you think Biden will do something different in 2024 to prevent fascism?
As a non-white person who is constantly harrassed by right-wingers, and who knows that voting won't overthrow the burgeoisie, voting blue is a means of not getting lynched on the street and to be able to get enough time until the revolution is ready.
If the fascists start burning my people in crosses and genociding them, no amount of voting third party is going to do shit.
That is what I believe. I don't have the cracker privilege of voting third party.
As a queer non-white person who is constantly harassed by right-wingers, voting blue is a way for people to check in with their community one day in November every four years.
The fascists are already here. They have been lynching my people, your people, and anyone else they can get away with. They escape the law because the law in the US is upheld by fascists and their enablers.
Biden didn't close the camps at the border. He didn't make covid safer. He didn't pack the courts or use his executive powers to prevent the overturn of Roe v Wade.
I don't have the privilege of voting third party. I have the priority of taking care of the people in my life because the two major parties are engaged in political theater.
Have you read project 2025? That will probably change your mind. It is terrifying.
I have read about it. It's bad. The republican party is getting overrun by mask-off fascists. I know they're an existential threat to me and mine.
It's really something the DNC should consider when making their campaign platform. They still have time to engage people and mobilize voters.
The crackers still sell you and your rubber-stamp either way. Toeing the line is not going to save you and yours.
Have you read project 2025? That will probably change your mind. It is terrifying.
I refuse to let one side's boogeymen browbeat me into supporting the people who sold my community, down to my blood relatives into fucking carceral slavery. There is no good guy, no option to even critically support in this fight. May they bleed each other.
I hope that if republicans win, they wont make more laws to make it easier to throw us in prison and for crackers to more easily get away with murdering us and our allies. Republicans are just full nazis now and that is terrifying. I am not being hyperbolic here.
the liberals are just as likely to do this, and more likely to have their version actually become reality
It's the dems who are building cop cities tho, and bidens funding for police outstrips Trump's and broke every record
I don’t have an issue with people who won’t vote for a right wing party. I understand the reasoning and am not interested in trying to convince them to vote.
For myself, I am scared of how much worse things can get. I have lost rights because of Trump’s appointments, but also he would not have been able to do so if Democrats hadn’t enabled him to with their apathy and desire to not solve wedge issues to maintain voter turnout.
I personally will vote because the amount of effort for me is minuscule and it’s a bit of a Pascal’s wager. Either way, we’re heading towards disaster, but I guess I’m too scared to be the frog jumping out of boiling water into an inferno.
a bit of a Pascal’s wager
it's interesting you bring that up because one of the huge holes in the wager is "what if one of the other religions is right" and we'd all support the fuck out of a vanguard if the FBI took too long to murder it.
I think it's valid to vote if you feel a need to. I'm not gonna tell other people not to vote. It's your business, and besides, I get the impression that your political involvement doesn't start and end with voting.
Republicans have gone full fascist
Please identify any serious difference in actual governance between Trump and Biden. Politeness doesn't count, I'm talking about real material differences.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/15/joe-biden-texas-transgender-care/
There's been a few more like this.
this is milquetoast compared to what he could do with the executive order pen, it's a nothing done to look like he's accomplishing things without actually having to accomplish anything
You asked what the material difference is. I answered. The fact that it could be better is a goalpost move.The essence of what I am saying is this is nothing. Any actual action would be better, this is a can kick to jingle keys in front of voters and make them think Biden might actually still do something (he will not). It is a pretend action to look busy without actually using the power of the office to help trans people.
To further dig into this, Biden gets to do fake shit and pretend to be nice and the media and liberals will just sit back and think everything is good and nice. Trump will galvanize actual pushback and people pressuring Democrats to do concrete actions, while Biden lets them all go to brunch and imagine that things are better when they are simply not.
Can you explain how its nothing? I read the article and it sounds decently substantial. Like I agree there's MUCH more he could do with executive power here but it doesnt seem like a complete nothingburger to me.
The executive order calls on the U.S. Department of Education and the Department of Health and Human Services to increase access to gender-affirming care and develop ways to counter state efforts aimed at limiting such treatments for transgender minors.
Increasing access is liberal speak for doing nothing, or at best ensuring that expensive services are "accessible" if you have enough money.
The federal health department will release sample policies for states to expand health care options for LGBTQ patients. The federal education department will release a sample school policy to achieve full inclusion of LGBTQ students.
These are not policies - they are sample policies, as in, "here's what would be nice, now please tell us why we shouldn't have just already done that" and they'll walk it back to some inane non-committment to anything.
This article doesn't have much detail so I'm switching to the WH press release:
President Biden is charging HHS with leading an initiative to reduce the risk of youth exposure to this dangerous practice.
This is in response to conversion therapy. Biden could have signed an order declaring it illegal and instructing the FBI to immediately begin investigations into every conversion therapy practice to identify abuse and abusers, with interviews with the victims of the abuse. Instead, he's told agencies to investigate plans to do the thing he has directly in his power but will never do.
President Biden is also encouraging the Federal Trade Commission to consider whether the practice constitutes an unfair or deceptive act or practice, and whether to issue consumer warnings or notices.
TO CONSIDER
And, he is directing the Secretaries of State, Treasury, and HHS to develop an action plan to promote an end to so-called “conversion therapy” around the world and ensure that U.S. foreign assistance dollars do not fund the practice.
AN ACTION PLAN
. To safeguard access to health care for LGBTQI+ patients and address the LGBTQI+ youth mental health crisis, President Biden is charging HHS with taking steps to address the barriers and exclusionary policies that LGBTQI+ individuals and families face in accessing quality, affordable, comprehensive health care, including mental health care, reproductive health care, and HIV prevention and treatment. The President’s Order charges HHS to work with states to promote expanded access to gender-affirming care. It also charges HHS to help prevent LGBTQI+ suicide by expanding youth access to suicide prevention resources, and to issue new guidance through the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration on providing evidence-informed mental health care for LGBTQI+ youth.
CHARGED WITH TAKING STEPS
PROMOTE EXPANDED ACCESS
NEW GUIDANCE
I could keep going, but this is the reality: his order is nothing. It does not name specific changes, it does not ban or forbid anything, it does not rescue anyone from peril, it does not prevent that peril from occurring in the future. These are worthless, do-nothing words to pantomime the real actions he is refusing to do. This is can kicking. This is tasking bureaucracy with writing some reports that will be ignored, but the EO will be on his list of accomplishments. This is what the Democrats have done with every single real issue, be it gay marriage, trans rights, healthcare, police violence - the only thing they will ever do is going through the motions of pretending to care and act.
For sure - I'm about to cook dinner but I'll come back in a bit
CENTRISM DOESN'T EXIST, IT'S MERELY A RHETORICAL STRATEGY
THERE'S NOTHING ALTERNATIVE ABOUT THE RIGHT WING, THIS IS WHAT THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN
I dont get how you don't consider Project 2025 terrifying enough to vote against in a swing state. Like, do you, I just don't get it.
If Biden wins he'll just do most of whatever project 2025 is anyway, because bipartisanship
He ran on blocking the building of "another foot" of wall - now he's waiving 26 laws to re-start the building of wall straight through wildlife refuges.
He ran on getting children out of cages. As soon as he was elected, one private for-profit child prison that had been stopped during Trump's administration because of bad optics immediately got the green light. It's holding children prisoner right now, as we speak.
He ran on fighting covid, because Trump was trying to pretend it wasn't a big deal. The instant he got into office he began the job of telling everybody it wasn't a big deal, ending all the financial aid, ending free vaccines.
You literally cannot convince me that Biden will prevent a single damn thing Trump wants to do. He'll just do it while the media pretends it isn't happening.
edit: at least with Trump some of the media tries to do the job of reporting the awful shit he's doing. They make no attempt at it for Biden.
Yes I know all those things. You're not going to successfully convince me to be less scared of Project 2025 though because its a whole nother ballgame. I don't even know why you're trying. I thought the party line here was "I dont care if you vote Democrat". Its not like me choosing to do so is harmful? And for the record as I said in my other post i'm not even going to do so anyway because I live in MA where my vote doesn't matter. I just personally feel that if I did live in like Michigan or something I'd vote because Project 2025 is legit horrifying.
does it matter which color party implements it if it's going to happen or not regardless?
Yeah I dont think things on the level of Project 2025 are going to "happen or not regardless" no matter how much doomer shit gets spread on here. There is a material difference, no matter how slim. And I stand by that.
You can disagree. I'm not here to vote shame. If you don't feel that Democrats will reduce harm or make a difference in any way, do you. I just do not see the evidence in the same way you do.
children in cages, the wall, israel, general imperialism, police, Roe...
I literally already said I'm aware of these things already.
However trans rights are a sticking point for me and considering the fact that Democrats in my state have passed sanctuary state legislation and other protections while red states go the opposite way, I see a material difference on that issue that matters to me.
Idk why you are even bothering I LITERLALY said I'm not voting for President because of where I live. The posts about "why bother vote evangelizing to communists" that are made elsewhere apply the other way. Stop trying to CONVICNE me not to care. Its materially pointless. Me choosing to vote, which I'm not even doing, doesn't hurt anyone.
Like I said in the comment chain down the line, Democrats in my state have passed trans sanctuary state laws, and this has happened in other blue states as well. Meanwhile red states go the other direction. This to me is enough of a material difference to matter. An unfortunate number of things are the exact same under Biden, and I'm aware of all of them. But the trans rights issue alone (which Biden has actually taken some action on, not anywhere near sufficient enough action, but enough for me to call it a material difference) is enough of a difference maker for me and I'm not even trans.
Like do you know what I'm referring to when I talk about Project 2025? Because its actually genuinely terrifying stuff.
I mean like I said, do you. It doesnt materially matter in a huge enough way for me to care. I overall agree that the American system will continue "trucking alone" whether or not you participate, and you're just one person. I dont actually care if you vote. I just want to make my position clear and also understand yours.
Well, you should probably google it. Can't hurt to be aware. I dont think its a very online thing either. Its the GOP's entire agenda for the next few years.
Yeah I mean, thats my point? Heavily blue states are making themselves sanctuary states. This to me is a sign of the material difference between Democrats and Republicans. Idk what that response was meant to say. Like, yeah, whats going on in your state sucks. But it doesnt contradict my point.
I've seen a few examples of EOs Biden has put out regarding trans rights, but I dont have all of them available, here's just one: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/15/joe-biden-texas-transgender-care/
Like I said, far from sufficient, but it is to me a material difference. If it isnt for you, thats your prerogative, particularly as a trans person.
I have voted Democrat my entire life and things have gotten worse. Voting changes nothing
That is true, we dont vote democrat for progress, we vote democrat because republicans want to annihilate us. Voting democrat is just a patch to give us more time to organize. But, yeah, voting for any liberal will move the Overton Window to the right every tims. That is an irrefutable fact. The point of voting democrat is just for it to not move as much as it does with republicans.
We cannot overthrow the bourgeoise by voting at all. But voting does changes the speed in which things detereorate. Republicans are accelerationist in this regard.
no democrat did anything about the overturning of Roe, no democrat has done anything about the wall or the caged children. no democrat is materially supporting the palestinian uprising. and on and on and on.
you think democrats are going to do anything about freikorps doing pogroms against us?
the part that's always missing from
dorks is that delaying an enemy only matters if you're getting something out of having extra time. is molotov-ribbentrop if the soviets proceeded to not build any tanks.This is factually wrong, Biden has actively pursued new, but different, wall and child cage measures, like renaming the facilities. Please be more informed the next time you say a Democrat has done nothing. /s
Joe Biden is building the wall and let Roe get overrturned. Democrats don't even do harm reduction now.
The only difference is whether or not the president releases rainbow balloons at pride or rants about the gays ruining Christmas.
It's harm redirection; not harm reduction. Or, 'so long as it's NOT happening to the libs, they don't care'.
I'll vote Green. There are no PSL or SA or CPUSA for me to vote for. It's the left most option I have. And if not a green slot, then Libertarian just because they are more sane than Republicans and don't care too much for imperalism or culture war bullshit.
is not "harm reduction".Maybe write in Eugene Debbs. Hear he's still running from a cell somewhere.
In
we're under the 3rd Red Scare and 2nd Lavender Scare. Fascist death spiral will continue until socialism improves.Hold up, you would rather vote Libertarian than Democrat? Libertarians are rich people that want no government intervention on minimum wage or environmental laws. They are the craziest out of all the parties in America.
I live in a +18 hard R district. I have no representation. The nearest Green chapter is 2 counties away and it's a professor from Lansing and a handful of waywards, half of them
including the professor himself.- Sans a Green, there's usually a Libertarian on the ballot next to Republican A,B,C, ...and 1/4 times there's a Democrat. After the stunt they pulled with
I want the Democratic Corporation to cease to exist. No more "half measures".
They'll never get another phone call, dime, or second of mine no matter how much they beg or try to shame while they fund and boost far right Republicans as "strategy".
Did you know Trump's #1 briber was Clinton's #3? 
It's a fuck you to both Democrats and Republicans that counts cause I can't just write in Mickey Mouse (Green Party). They also want ranked choice voting. Case in point in the state of Maine, Greens and Libertarians teamed up to get RCV passed in 2017.
- what have Democrats been doing with the minimum wage and environmentalism? $7.25/hr last moved in 2009, of since the costs of livng has skyrocketed. Maybe a fart in the wind on environmentalism while approving more drilling and destructive wars. Climate enhanced storms do more damage than they are wiling to invest.
But you know anytime Zelensky takes a shit in his
burn pit of a country, we seem to have endless pockets of billions laying around to make an even bigger burn pit. (Paltry crumbs for our own chemical disaster zones at home). Then they are busy arresting and beating demonstrators demanding they do something.-
Yes they're loony, but they aren't going to try to make me illegal and have solidarity with reguards to war, even if the place they are coming from differs from mine the objective is the same. I'll take the risk of an incompotent pothead over a fascist or fascist adjacent chumming "pragmatic"
liberal. -
They won't win, but maybe 5% somewhere gets heads in board rooms panicing and policies start moving.
They are the lesser evil than democrats where I am mostly because my options on the ballot suck ass. It's a chaos vote. As Lawrence O'Donnel said when he was working in the DNC, they didn't have to listen to anything on the left and we had to prove to them that we are capable of not voting for them..
It isn't like the Democrats have any legal obligation to honor my vote anyways even if there was a progressive option. Hell Joe Biden himself swooped in a few counties away from me to prop up a republican to prevent a progressive dem win for the modest fee of $200,000. if that shows you where Democrat's true heart lies. I could just not vote and save myself the hassle, but it's cathartic, semi meaningful on a local level, and I will not give Democrats any more life support. They don't deserve to represent the people.
- Sans a Green, there's usually a Libertarian on the ballot next to Republican A,B,C, ...and 1/4 times there's a Democrat. After the stunt they pulled with
In terms of how far away from the truth, yeah, libertarians are the most deranged. But liberals are straight up bloodthirsty and don't mind putting us on the edge of nuclear war. Republicans are, well, even worse than that. Libertarians are more of a meme and while their policies would surely be disastrous, they usually can at least be trusted to oppose wars. Usually.
Damn, it sounds like the opposing candidate should've campaigned better. Or you know, not support trump in the primary.
they ran a "pied piper" strategy, it's fairly well-known around here and you can probably google "clinton pied piper"
They did the exact same thing they're doing now, they're asking the DNC friendly media to focus on Trump (not that they need encouragement) and not focus on other candidates as much, with the assumption that Trump winning the primary means an easy win for Biden. It failed in 2016 and they're too up their own asses to realize they need a new strategy.
Not anymore. If Dems want my vote they have to do better than strikebreaker Joe.
Dems want to build cop cities and Bidens on track to deport more people than Trump
I cannot in good conscience vote for that, it would be immoral and unprincipled, so I simply will not vote in a national election
I mean rather than not voting why dont you vote third party then just for morale?
No, not really. The two parties control the whole process up and down. You can vote for other parties, sometimes, in some places, but it's almost entirely pointless.
rip. Preferential voting is useful, so is mandatory voting. Anyway. Maybe later kiddo
I vote Dem straight-ballot, because of the harm reduction, and also because I don't buy the argument that having Republicans in power is energizing leftist sentiments more than it is emboldening outright fascim. But I am sympathetic to the idea that electoralism is a cul-de-sac where leftist political energy goes to run out of steam and die. I don't want to pretend that I'm totally sure of what the right approach is.
you realize most black people live in the south right?
This doesn't mean that their lives are any easier than in the North and that they are not comfortable being constantly mistreated. Apartheid South Africa would like to have a word with you.
"I am sorry, did I shattered your white fragility? You get angry and defensive when someone points out that black people have it harder. Or are you going to ignore all the history of how black people have been treated in the South and are currently being treated in the South. You are just a racist and afrophobic with nothing worthwhile to contribute to the conversation."
since youre so dense ill spell it out for you. I AM BLACK AND LIVE IN THE SOUTH. look at a my username, profile pic or post history you obvious racist troll.
I actually laughed out loud reading their response to you. Another troll to block.
quite literally hitting me with the joe biden "if you dont vote for me you aint black" shit
yeah youre right time to block!
People survive whatever state they're in because most don't have any other choice. That's material conditions.
Why are people always trying to get people here to
????Everyone here knows how the electoral system in the US works, and has madeca decision in whether they want to are not. The kind of people in a left political space are more politically aware than average.
The vast majority of people in the US don't vote and are not generally politically aware. If you really need to
evangelize go out and talk to them. People here are not get-able, they've made their decision one way or another.And most importantly, the people on this site who live in the US are not going to be the deciding votes in US elections, especially presidential (because that's what all US
evangelists are always talking about) There's not enough communists or anarchists to blame your electoral losses on. Look into the 10s of millions of peoole that don't vote and don't have an exact reason for it, other than inherently knowing that the system they live under doesn't work
it sucks
where did that bring you Jack
