What kind of electoralism is it, proletarian or bourgeois, idealist or materialist? Do they declare solidarity with the occupied third world, or do they sympathize with the naval gazing narcissism of the first world labor aristocracy?

The fact that Bad Faith believes "self driving cars are the future" and "we can go full clean energy without fossil fuels" tells us they're just merely woke liberals who don't know about the effects of resource extraction. How can you be a Marxist with less of an understanding of basic physics than papa Karl? It's impossible to be a materialist if you're as delusional as the Elon Musk death cult redditors

  • Oni [any,comrade/them]
    ·
    4 years ago

    pray tell how you make steel for nearly all green energy projects without fossil fuels, for example. Or how you mine copper when all mining vehicles run on diesel. It's the very crux of why "simply replace all our current stuff with green stuff 👶🧠" is not only an impossible task, but once that would run counter to the entire purpose of green energy, since remanufacturing our entire energy ecosystem will release insane amounts of carbon.

    DEGROWTH from fossil fuel use and removal of capitalism (a system predicated on infinite growth) is the only way to begin a green future. Eventually we can stop using fossil fuels (for energy production at least) but that's the last step in a long march that we haven't even begun as a society.

    • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      pray tell how you make steel for nearly all green energy projects without fossil fuels, for example.

      Use electricity to generate heat. Use heat to operate a foundry.

      remanufacturing our entire energy ecosystem will release insane amounts of carbon.

      Physical capital is exhausted through operation and periodically needs to be repaired/replaced regardless of the energy source.

      DEGROWTH from fossil fuel use and removal of capitalism (a system predicated on infinite growth) is the only way to begin a green future.

      "Growth" is simply a measure of money velocity from year to year. Money isn't real, so simply adjusting monetary policy can cause "economic growth" without changing real land, labor, or energy consumption. The rapidly inflating financial sector demonstrates as much.

      Also - as you note - we have an abundance of exigent fossil-fuel consuming capital. If nothing else, clearing away that old capital so we can make use of the underlying land and raw materials will take labor and energy. That's another 30 years of increased growth whether you like it or not.

      • Oni [any,comrade/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Use electricity to generate heat. Use heat to operate a foundry.

        its not that simple. You need coke (derived from coal) to smelt iron ore with in order to produce steel. without coal, you cannot make steel. electric foundries can only melt scrap steel to make recycled steel products.

        Physical capital is exhausted through operation and periodically needs to be repaired/replaced regardless of the energy source.

        not in a time frame fast enough to avert climate catastrophe. and lots of governments also literally do not have the capital to repair/replace old existing dirty technology, let alone replace it with green stuff.

        “Growth” is simply a measure of money velocity from year to year. Money isn’t real, so simply adjusting monetary policy can cause “economic growth” without changing real land, labor, or energy consumption. The rapidly inflating financial sector demonstrates as much.

        that's not the growth I'm taking about. I'm basically talking about consumption. Capitalism must be ended or forced to reduce it's commodity production and not manufacture anything at all in order to reduce global carbon emissions. There is no way to manufacture what we do at the current numbers without fossil fuels until all energy is 100% green, and as I already mentioned, you can't manufacture green energy products without carbon release.

        The answer is severe degrowth of consumption and the economies of the top emitting economies, per capita. It's not gonna be pretty or fun and it will never happen until Capitalism is destroyed. That's why the green vision of a easy transition to utopian green economies while enjoying the benefits of economic growth is a massive lie and will never manifest. if you want to be committed to saving the environment, people in the first world especially need to commit to restructuring society entirely. no more cars, endless commodity consumption, exotic fruits shipped from overseas. technology will not save us, green or not.