• space_comrade [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    It could have evolved, but if it has no causal effect then you can only regard it as a "evolutionary spandrel", or an accident basically. Neutral traits exist.

    The whole point of the argument is examining whether declaring it a spandrel makes sense. I don't think it does.

    • RedDawn [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Literally all evolution is “accidental”, there is no such thing as purposeful evolution.

      • space_comrade [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I don't know how to explain it better honestly, but I'll try again.

        You believe everything is matter and consciousness is somehow reducible to matter, right? That means consciousness in of itself does not have any causal effect on the material world, correct?

        If so that means that consciousness cannot be part of any natural selection process, and if it wasn't why did it evolve in the exact way it did? Why even is there consciousness? And if there is why isn't it just a random collection of experiences that don't at all correspond to the material world at all? The only real answer from a physicalist perspective is that it's just this big coincidence, which just seems very unlikely to me. If your theory depends on assuming this huge coincidence then your theory is kind of in trouble IMO.

        • RedDawn [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          You believe everything is matter and consciousness is somehow reducible to matter, right? That means consciousness in of itself does not have any causal effect on the material world, correct?

          No, what? It doesn’t mean that at all.

          • space_comrade [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Alright, can you elaborate? What is consciousness from your point of view and how does it causally interact with matter?

            • RedDawn [he/him]
              ·
              4 years ago

              I honestly do not even understand the question “how does it causally interact with matter”? Consciousness is awareness of existence, and it is the result of some processes of the body and brain.

              • space_comrade [he/him]
                ·
                4 years ago

                Alright, what is the "awareness of existence"? I'm talking about the qualitative, subjective aspect of consciousness, the "feels" if you will, the redness of red, the pain and pleasure etc. Where does that fit in your view? Is all of it caused by interactions of matter?

                  • space_comrade [he/him]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    If that is so then you agree with the premises of my previous comment: https://hexbear.net/post/91483/comment/1013036

                    Or am I missing some nuance here?