Both Ukraine and Palestine are fighting against an invading force. We can unanimously agree that Palestinians have have been illegally occupied in an open air prison/concentration camp for 75 years. And we seem to agree that Palestine cannot be a perfect victim and it is reasonable that they seek support in Hamas instead of their Israeli oppressors.

Now why can't the same logic be applied to Ukraine? There is absolutely a nazi problem in Ukraine. A nazi problem that needs to be wiped out. But Russia isnt trying to denazify Ukraine, they're trying to maintain borders and resist NATO. But while doing so they are indiscriminately killing civilians and are the aggressors.

Personally, I believe in what Norman Finkelstein has to say about Hezbollah and the red army. Both are not perfect, but I don't care about their politics. I care that they are a resisting force and believe a country should have the right to self determination.

So how are these situations diametrically opposed that you seem to be hostile towards Ukraine but supportive of Palestine?

I don't mean to come off as shaming or judgemental. I genuinely would like to hear your perspective.

Edit: I appreciate all of the thoughtful and patient responses. Even though I might not respond to everything here I am reading all of it. I was operating under a lack of information, which I've never seen any Western media source report on. Ever since leaving reddit, hexbear has been a great source of alternative perspectives and context. It's opened my eyes to a lot of how I've been misled by papers that I've trusted.

  • Justice@lemmygrad.ml
    ·
    1 year ago

    My personal easy answer to this is

    1. I do not support or oppose Ukraine existing as a state nor Russia existing as a state. I have no opinion on their borders or if there should be/will be new formal states created in the region after the conflict there ends. Why? Because I don't give a shit about lines on a map especially lines drawn by westerners post-Soviet collapse and rigidly enforced by westerners. Just because those lines exist does not mean Ukrainians nor Russians agree with them. Is it my (our) duty/right/whatever to question people living there? (No)

    2. following with 1), since I don't support either state, I seek only a peace agreement and immediate end to hostilities there to end further loss of life and potential to draw the region/world into a WWI imperialist war. People being dead, whether they call themselves Ukrainian or Russian, is bad in my view. And celebrating the deaths of young Russians, as the liberal press did for over a year and a half now, is as gross to me as it when they celebrate Palestinian deaths (obviously Israeli and Ukrainian deaths are bad too- these are mourned in the press/western world though, thus why I move on quickly. I won't keep "disclaimering" this.)

    3. NATO is the Nazi side (literally. Read about it if you're unaware!) and should never be supported by anyone even remotely "on the left."

    And

    1. More of a side note: I sympathize deeply with both Russians and Ukrainians, populations that have both suffered greatly to the Nazis and then the Americans more recently with the Soviet collapse and power vacuum.

    These countries are, in my outside opinion, cousin countries, maybe even siblings. They share so much in common; their languages are hardly different.

    I think of them as like the former-Yugoslavian countries (Balkan posting at 9am?). Bosnia i Herzegovina and Serbia and Croatia and Montenegro, etc. all share a commonly understood language broken down only by ethnic boundaries. It's honestly sad, and I really mean sad like you should cry to see and think about it, what the US and allies have done to former-Yugoslavian states and former-Soviet states like Ukraine and the Russian Federation.

    The Ukrainians were sold a false promise that if they betrayed their sibling nation and leaned towards NATO that they'd be offered membership- an obvious lie.

    Meanwhile, the Russians have long been the outcasts of Europe, treated like lessers by the Western powers. And that tradition continues on with the dehumanizing of Russians and elevation of Ukrainians in the Western consciousness.

    I want this to end immediately. I don't want further war between these countries that serves absolutely no one except weapons contractors and those who seek to destabilize the Eastern European general region. Not helping Ukraine is not supporting genocide or supporting Putin or whatever. It's forcing an end to the war. Those concerned more with map lines than human lives disgust me (not directed at OP, just in general).