There's also no magic or whatever involved. We made it happen through a lot of work. There isn't really any fictional world that is designed to be aspirational like that. When doing well it questions the ethics of its own world as well showing that it's aspirational but not utopian.
Wonderfully said. I get confused by ppl who complain Star Trek isn’t a utopia or perfect. It’s aspirational and expands our view of what we could achieve with cooperation.
TNG era stuff with too much oversight from Roddenberry or Berman had an issue with confusing aspirational with utopian. Like Roddenberry saying that people would no long grieve the dead and most of Voyager. DS9 got it right but you do need that idealism of TNG to tee up the deconstruction and even then it wasn't some crass tearing down of the Federation, it just showed it had some deep issues based in it's own conceited enlightenment, not that they were just as bad as we are but that there's still a long road ahead and it takes constant work and vigilance.
While DS9 actively showed flaws to make Starfleet and the Federation seem real instead of an impossibly idealized vision, TNG shows cracks on a rewatch. Like your great point about conceited enlightenment, the flaws humanize the Federation’s detractors, the Ferengi, Klingons, and Romulans weren’t wrong. Weren't there a few episodes where they discussed losing their principles if their material conditions deteriorated?
Reminds me of Zizek’s point that happiness doesn’t come from government and society and that happiness isn’t the goal. We just don’t wanna live in a chaotic system that wastes lives and resources.
Weren’t there a few episodes where they discussed losing their principles if their material conditions deteriorated?
Yep, once on DS9 when they get stuck in the 21st century and they're in the sanctuary district/ghetto:
BASHIR: But it makes you wonder, doesn't it? Are humans really any different than Cardassians or Romulans? If push comes to shove, if something disastrous happens to the Federation, if we are frightened enough, or desperate enough, how would we react? Would we stay true to our ideals or would we just stay up here, right back where we started?
There's also no magic or whatever involved. We made it happen through a lot of work. There isn't really any fictional world that is designed to be aspirational like that. When doing well it questions the ethics of its own world as well showing that it's aspirational but not utopian.
Wonderfully said. I get confused by ppl who complain Star Trek isn’t a utopia or perfect. It’s aspirational and expands our view of what we could achieve with cooperation.
TNG era stuff with too much oversight from Roddenberry or Berman had an issue with confusing aspirational with utopian. Like Roddenberry saying that people would no long grieve the dead and most of Voyager. DS9 got it right but you do need that idealism of TNG to tee up the deconstruction and even then it wasn't some crass tearing down of the Federation, it just showed it had some deep issues based in it's own conceited enlightenment, not that they were just as bad as we are but that there's still a long road ahead and it takes constant work and vigilance.
While DS9 actively showed flaws to make Starfleet and the Federation seem real instead of an impossibly idealized vision, TNG shows cracks on a rewatch. Like your great point about conceited enlightenment, the flaws humanize the Federation’s detractors, the Ferengi, Klingons, and Romulans weren’t wrong. Weren't there a few episodes where they discussed losing their principles if their material conditions deteriorated?
Reminds me of Zizek’s point that happiness doesn’t come from government and society and that happiness isn’t the goal. We just don’t wanna live in a chaotic system that wastes lives and resources.
Yep, once on DS9 when they get stuck in the 21st century and they're in the sanctuary district/ghetto: