One official noted that the Palestinian health ministry’s death counts may even be an undercount.
President Joe Biden cast doubt this week on the Palestinian health ministry’s death count in Israel’s current genocidal campaign against Palestinians — but Biden’s own administration officials rely on those same death counts for their reports, and have even said in one instance that the ministry’s count may be too low.
According to a review by HuffPost of nearly 20 “situation reports” from the State Department, which represent the U.S.’s assessments on the ground and are intended to inform policy decisions, officials have often cited casualties reported by the health ministry in Gaza. In these reports, which date back to October 8, the day after Hamas’s initial attack on Israel, the ministry’s counts are cited at least 12 times, the analysis found.
In one instance, in an October 21 report, an official said that the Gaza ministry’s numbers may actually be an undercount of the death toll. “The numbers are likely much higher, according to the UN and NGOs reporting on the situation,” the official reportedly wrote.
The ministry’s death counts were also included in a report provided on October 25, just hours before Biden would say that he has “no confidence” in those same death counts in a press conference on the White House lawn.
“I have no notion that the Palestinians are telling the truth about how many people are killed. I’m sure innocents have been killed, and it’s the price of waging a war,” Biden said. “I have no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using.”
Biden’s remark sparked outrage from advocates and experts, who have said that the health ministry’s death counts have historically been reliable and are cited by many international organizations, including the UN. The State Department has also cited these figures prior to this month’s violence.
“Everyone uses the figures from the Gaza Health Ministry because those are generally proven to be reliable,” Omar Shakir, Israel and Palestine director for Human Rights Watch, told The Washington Post. “In the times in which we have done our own verification of numbers for particular strikes, I’m not aware of any time which there’s been some major discrepancy.”
Advocates add that questioning the death tolls — especially in such a public manner — only furthers Zionist propaganda and serves to justify and perpetuate the genocide. “Questioning death tolls directly dehumanizes Palestinians. It’s a key part of genocide denial. Israel is murdering Palestinians. By minimizing this, the U.S. is laying the groundwork for more death,” Jewish anti-Zionist group IfNotNow wrote on social media. “Internally, Biden administration officials regularly cite the Gaza Ministry of Health. Yet Biden and White House spokespeople are publicly questioning these figures in an attempt to remove their own responsibility for funding death and destruction.”
After Biden’s comments on Wednesday, the Gazan health ministry released a list of the names of thousands of Palestinians who have been killed by Israel’s genocidal siege in the past three weeks. According to the health ministry, the Israeli military has killed at least 7,326 Palestinians since it began its current bombing campaign in Gaza. Since Israel declared war on Palestinians on October 7, Israeli settlers and the Israeli military have killed at least 90 Palestinians in the West Bank, and Israel has more than doubled the number of Palestinians in the West Bank being held in Israeli jails, with 10,000 Palestinian prisoners being held. The death toll will likely rise as Israeli forces prepare for a ground invasion into Gaza in the coming days.
link: https://truthout.org/articles/bidens-own-officials-cite-the-palestinian-death-counts-he-cast-doubt-on/
archive link: https://archive.ph/TvwrO
Israelis are slaughtering Palestinians. This was their plan for decades. They are making their play now. This is no longer about "hamas" (whoever paid them to do their bit as mercenaries), this is the old "russian land grab" in the middle east and as the Israelis at protest rallies have stated quite clearly - lets kill all the animal Arabs. And STILL they're trying to milk the "victim" card.
And now we (the U.S.) ALMOST have another "big equipment" confrontation in the middle east. yay war pigs. yay death merchants.
Will the rest of us never put a stop to these fuckers?
this is the old "russian land grab" in the middle east
If the Russians conducted war like Israelis, Kiev would already be a parking lot. Lucky for most involved, they are not a genocidal ethnostate, whatever other criticisms may be made of them.
Feel free to show me that. If there is a problem such as a link, then I'd have to rule it out.
That seem to be biased given that it comes from Gaza. I'd rather look for one where said country don't benefit from either Gaza/Israel, and can corroborates their claim with evidence. Fog of War is a bit of a issue now.
It's an agency on a Hamas-controlled government. That is questionable in of by itself. I'm looking for one that is not from Israel or Hamas.
Let's see. Israel becoming a international pariah if there is a really strong case that they committed war crime. The hospital bombing was shown not to be from IDF. Those do points to Hamas being unreliable. And of course, Israel has a mission to make themselves look good as possible, which is why I wouldn't rely on them either.
So, we don't have anything for now. As I said, I hope more information comes out. Preferably from one that is not from Israel or Hamas.
The hospital bombing was shown not to be from IDF.
You're a fucking moron if you believe the shrapnel story. Do you believe in the 40 babies too?
Considering that there were backtracking from the initial claims, and further checks from other countries. The easiest explanation is that it was not from IDF.
For the babies thing, I haven't tried checking those links. As far as I know, it's a viral claim, however, it doesn't seem to be verified to be done by Hamas. So, I have no reason to believe in that story.
Considering that there were backtracking from the initial claims, and further checks from other countries. The easiest explanation is that it was not from IDF.
Backtracking from the harebrained claim that the missile came from Hamas, you mean? Or that a piece of shrapnel could level a hospital?
Hamas has little reason to do shit like this and the IDF is observably targeting ambulances and other blatantly civilian entities (like bakeries, for some reason). What do you think is the simplest way to explain it?
They were backtracking from the claim that Israel has done it. Now, there doesn't seem to be a conclusion because of the lack of independent investigation which is sorely desired.
The easiest explanation is that it was Hamas or some other allied group given that we know that Hamas has attacked. Israel has international partners and has the issues of Muslim neighborhood wanting them gone. Israel can't afford to be international pariah.
Israel has international partners and has the issues of Muslim neighborhood wanting them gone. Israel can't afford to be international pariah.
This is delusional. We already know they have a longstanding habit of picking off ambulances and other civilian targets. They have already cut off food, water, medicine, and so on to Gaza. They are already doing heinous shit like they have been doing for their whole miserable existence.
The easiest explanation is that it was Hamas or some other allied group given that we know that Hamas has attacked
Spelling errors make it really hard to follow you because your ideology is so incoherent that it's difficult to make a guess that sounds plausible. Is it "we know what Hamas has attacked" as though they a) had any higher proclivity than Israel to attack civilian infrastructure and b) that would mean that any civilian target is more likely to be struck by them, even when they are mainly hitting Palestinians? That would be deranged, but given the other thing you said, I'm forced to assume it.
The point of attacking the festival wasn't that the a priori concept of civilian blood gives them a hard-on, it was an attack on the Israeli population. Why the fuck would they be attacking Palestinian civilians? Them not meeting your liberal sensibilities does not mean they are irrational sadists seeking to gun down anything with a pulse.
Attacking civilians can never be justified
Apparently it can by simply insisting "No, it wasn't us. They attacked their own citizens!" Like you're doing.
Nations do have the rights to self-defense. So, it's not exactly wrong to attack back.
9/11 is a little different in that there were earlier assaults and warnings. So, I think USA is correct to try to resolve it, but execution of it can be questioned.
Much like how nazi Germany had the right to defend itself from Poland's reckless attack on the Fatherland by carving massacre after massacre on the Polish people, Israel too has the right to defend itself from Palestine.
What are you talking about? That has nothing to do with what I said.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/0000017f-f2da-d497-a1ff-f2dab2520000
This isn't related to the war, but it's one of those things that needs to be looked at.
Where exactly did you find that it was from Israel's side toward Gaza? At the moment, there isn't much independent investigation on this, unfortunately. So, I can't make a conclusion here yet.
If they mean this report, which was trivially easy to find based on keywords, the footage bandied about by the IDF as a smoking gun is blatantly an Israeli rocket, though also surely not the one that actually hit the hospital. The IDF is plainly lying using footage that looks striking, the same sort of low-effort bullshit they always do because all Zionists need are lurid details, true and relevant ones or not.
One of the larger points in favor of "this shit was the IDF" was that, as reported in the same article, the rocket hit the courtyard where people had evacuated for safety. Israel loves targeting people who are sheltering (see them giving evacuation directions and then bombing the evacuation site on another instance)
Paywall, but as I said, there's not enough information on that. So, I can't honestly say who has done that.
On the second part, that one is definitely worth a look at as it is a war crime to intentionally strike civilians, and looking at all possible angles should be looked at. There's a stronger case here than the the rocket striking hospital vicinity thing. The lack of follow-up to this points to Israel. But, I doubt nations will want to cut aid simply because of a single war crime.
You were perfectly happy to say Israel didn't do it just before.
Yes. Because I don't find it very likely. All eyes are on Gaza or at least all eyes are trying to look at Gaza at the moment. Israel has a lot of international partners with democratic government. Not to mention muslim countries surrounding them just itching at a chance to attack them. You know what that means? That means they can't afford to look bad to others. With no reliable corroborating findings to point to what happened, I just can't say that Israel did it at all, and just say that it's unlikely.
It is assessed by outside bodies to be accurate, what more could you want? It's not like you'd give a shit what a Syrian organization had to say, because they too are biased, and you can make a line for whatever group you fucking want. There is no such thing as being unbiased, but a history of theoretical enemies agreeing with your statement is a good indicator of accuracy, and this has that.
I'd prefer independent corroboration from nation that doesn't benefit from either Israel or Hamas. As far as Syria goes, it would be great if they didn't have relationship with Hamas, and I'd definitely look into what they have to say in that case. But as they do, I wouldn't use Syria as a source.
Maybe once the fog of war clear up, I would consider the available sources on the war. But, as of now, I can't honestly be confident about the numbers for now. I wasn't confident about numbers given by Russia or Ukraine during the earlier stage of the war, but as more information pours up, it seems that Ukraine has a closer number and matches closer to finding of nations that are not Ukraine/Russia, so one can rely on Ukraine numbers.
So rather than take a side based on previously accurate death counts from this ministry in past Israeli military action, you choose to sit on the sidelines?
Useful idiots like you are how atrocities like this continue on.
The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis.
