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Man, I'mma have to come back to this tomorrow. It's too late in the evening for me to get my heart rate up stripping Rainer's 'bars' for parts and pieces. Knowing it's from him thanks to the comment section, my prediction already is more settler integrationist wrecker shit.
EDIT: I lied, I can't help myself now that the brainworm has bit and will not let go.. While on one hand, this sounds somewhat shady if it can be proven that PSL and ANSWER knew when the Uhuru march was going on, it sounds like an egregious snub; the other hand is still saying this is still Rainer Shea we're talking about. This is still the same settler who CANNOT PASS UP the opportunity to slag PSL, ANSWER, Black Agenda Report, the Black Alliance for Peace, and basically anyone who won't align with libertarian patsoc nonsense. As far as I'm concerned, no analysis of his can be taken from a serious viewpoint, and I'll wait for a more sober, more credible analysis of the situation from elsewhere.
This is still the same settler who CANNOT PASS UP the opportunity to slag PSL, ANSWER, Black Agenda Report, the Black Alliance for Peace
Indeed this is something that i have never understood and i find very worrying as well the degree to which Rainer obsesses over criticizing these specific orgs. I'm sure they are not without their issues but relative to a lot of other "leftist" groups in the US they are certainly much better.
I'll wait for a more sober, more credible analysis of the situation from elsewhere.
This is exactly what i was hoping to get by making this post, i was hoping that someone who is familiar with the situation would come along and explain exactly how and why the situation was misrepresented by Rainer (if it was misrepresented) and would debunk the accusations he is making. I deliberately waited a few days to see if such an explanation would come but unfortunately so far all i have read have been attacks on the credibility of the author, which is all well and good and i do agree with a lot of them, but this doesn't help me when i want to present solid counter-arguments to those who criticize PSL over such apparent snubs of Uhuru's struggle. Without an argument based in the facts it is too easy to be dismissed as simply resorting to ad hominems without substance.
Ok let’s be serious here, do you think Uhuru’s protest should take precedence over what is going on in Palestine right now? There is an active genocide going on and we are talking about the dehumanization of millions of people here. The Palestine march isn’t exactly something that can afford to be moved a week later to accommodate another group.
Of course not, but why can't both be done? Otherwise if it is just a matter of priorities and both not being possible then i fully agree, the more urgent one has to be Palestine at the moment.
My question is this: has PSL said or tried to do anything about the persecution of the Uhuru movement or are they really afraid to be seen defending an organization that has adopted an openly pro-Russian stance just because such an association would alienate liberals?
Rainier's history is that he will listen very very closely to PSL, take notes, and then write entire essays on single sentences that ignore context and absolutely not reference anything else that would contradict his position. You can easily debunk him if you spend the time actually engaging with PSL content.
He's a hack and he's not worth listening to. He's shown us what he is.
You can easily debunk him if you spend the time actually engaging with PSL content.
This is exactly what i was asking for with this post. I want to hear from people familiar with this situation how and why this article is misrepresenting it. Unfortunately i have yet to see that easy debunking, and so far all the responses to this post have merely attacked the credibility of the author - which is valid and fine, i agree that their takes in the past have been dubious at times, but this doesn't help me present solid counter-arguments to people who are genuinely worried about this situation around Uhuru.
The only thing we can do is analyze the specific situation being presented. So far the evidence I have read is that PSL/ANSWER scheduled an event that stole attention and attendance from another event organized by Black socialists. I would have to dig a lot to be able to make sense of whether or not this was actually a spoiler move that had a major impact and represents antagonistic motives.
But the rest of the article is all bombastic judgements based on this one singular event of a scheduling conflict. Rainier doth protest too much. So much, in fact, that it seems far more likely he's got a chip on his shoulder about PSL and is actively working to undermine them and create divisions in their support and not actually interested in anything else.
The only thing I could debunk here is whether or not PSL actually scheduled an event deliberately to split focus from another event. That's it. And while it's an interesting question, it's gonna take me a while to get to the bottom of it.
You're probably right. The more i think about it the more this seems like making a mountain out of a molehill.
Beware Rainer is untrustworthy IMO. Crypto-patsoc. Don't get me wrong like some Maoists he has good analysis of things at times but he also goes off the deep end indulging all kinds of deviation. I wouldn't believe any kind of intra-left drama he's selling and would be inclined to dismiss him out of hand.
... would be inclined to dismiss him out of hand
Ok but this is what i'm trying to avoid doing here, i acknowledge that he has not always had the best takes but i am interested in learning exactly how and why he is wrong on this particular issue. Because sometimes valid criticism can come from dubious sources.
True and I think I misread your post. Your question is quite valid but I can offer no insight.
Sounds like ultras to me, but I don't have access to the article or know about this specific issue.
The only org in my area that has been leading the organizing for Palestine is the PSL. One of the integral parts of a protest is to network with like minded people, the protest itself isn't going to bring about the revolution.
There is a danger to any movement that an organization might use it for gain like what happened with BLM, but if the PSL really were after cash, the recruiting process would not be anything more than a form and your credit card.
if the PSL really were after cash, the recruiting process would not be anything more than a form and your credit card
I see you comin after DSA like that
Haha didn't even know they did that, guess I'm keeping in spirit of the com
I don’t know enough to be certain about this situation, but based on Shea’s past takes he does not have the best interests of the New African nation in mind considering his integrationist takes. He also takes any chance he gets to diss PSL, who is obviously not above criticism, but Shea is not whose criticism I would trust.
cfgaussian
leftist infighting
“Is it Rainer again?.. Called it.”
I'm not American, but the work I've seen from the PSL on Breakthrough News is very high quality. They always have good takes, bring new content to light, and have great guests. I don't know much about their work on the ground. They didn't cower when Russia invaded Ukraine, like so many leftist groups, so that says a lot about them. I'm sure they're not perfect, but no party or organization will ever be.
Communists are used to deal with attacks from the right and center, but there is also space to spread dissent and suspicion from the left. It's not uncommon here in Europe, for some enlightened leftists to critique communist parties and countries from a leftist perspective. When they get enough traction they even manage to form parties like SYRIZA, Podemos and Left Bloc. Always beware of these types of critiques coming from "leftists".
Oh god, not Shea again....
Edit: is he seriously criticizing PSL for stealing support from black organizations? He really cannot be talking.
PSL planned their pro Palestinian March nearly immediately after October 7th.
This reeks of psyop to cause infighting or negative media optics.
It is also completely bizarre and the article reads as if a person who has never left their basement wrote it. The PSL is stealing support from black groups??? Really? That’s their angle?
Also you can run marches whenever you want, you don’t have the rights to hold the only march in the capital city of a country on a given weekend.
All of that is fair i think and a good counter to the arguments made in connection to this specific conflict between the two marches, but nevertheless it seems that groups like the African People's Socialist Party are still expressing a fair bit of displeasure at how PSL and ANSWER have been treating them. Their open letter contained some fairly harsh indictments of ANSWER, to which the latter from what i can tell responded quite dismissively and rudely.
I just wish there weren't these kinds of conflicts to begin with, it seems to me like all of these groups should be on the same side and working together. Why do leftists have such a hard time understanding when to set disagreements aside for the sake of a common cause? Smh...
I think for me this topic is more or less closed now as i understand that what has finally been decided is that each will simply have their own march and not cancel it due to the other. That's good enough, even if it would have been better if this ugly, divisive spat had not occurred.
I've always leaned towards PSL is a college fraternity in the American left, they have a serious rape culture and racism. So I'm not surprised they only think about money. I've been to their anti-war rallies before and they've been pushing their book (I'm not denying the content of the book, I haven't read it).
Those articles are from at least ten years ago. I don’t know what rallies you went to, but at mine they were denouncing the US and Israel and calling for decolonization, all without plugging their org. Obviously they aren’t perfect, and I’d like to look further into their successes and failures, but I’m not going to take decade old articles or Rainer f-ing Shea as sources for their failures.
Can only speak to personal experience, but PSL and ANSWER are at just about every single protest or action in our city. Or they're helping organize them. And they always do their best to center the communities that are deserving of spotlight in these moments.
And yes, they try to build their own org at the same time. That's the point. It'd be co-opting if they just swept in and took credit, but they actively work with other orgs and help them with mobilization. We need these orgs to continue working with each other and building trust among themselves. Otherwise, how in the hell do we expect an eventual vanguard to emerge out of the currently decentralized movement?
What's impressive too is that they maintain a presence yet aren't some gigantic chapter with hundreds of cadre. Like you said, not above criticism, but they're composed of hard working members that sacrifice a lot.
i only know the uhuru movement as a token used by yankee tankie, who always called it the "ooroo movement"
OK, so here's some details:
Black is Back Open Letter
https://blackisbackcoalition.org/open-letter-to-brian-becker-of-the-answer-coalition-and-party-for-socialism-and-liberation/PSL/ANSWER Response to Open Letter
https://blackisbackcoalition.org/the-black-is-back-coalition-responds-to-answer-psl-your-actions-speak-so-loudly-we-cant-hear-a-word-you-say/#answerBlack is Back Response to PSL/ANSWER Response
https://blackisbackcoalition.org/the-black-is-back-coalition-responds-to-answer-psl-your-actions-speak-so-loudly-we-cant-hear-a-word-you-say/In the open letter, PSL/ANSWER is accused of scheduling a rally at the same date, time, and place as a rally planned by Black is Back and doing so as a form of opportunism and cooptation.
In the response, PSL/ANSWER says they didn't set the date, the coalition running the rally did.
The Black is Back response is to say that PSL has never participated in their rally for the past 15 years, that they expected PSL to tell them about the Palestine rally directly instead of finding out about it via social, and that PSL told the Palestine coalition that PSL couldn't do earlier than Nov 4 because of other things on the calendar (which they construe as insisting on Nov 4). They further state that Becker said PSL is under white leadership, but link to him saying "there is white leadership", and then he says "most of our leadership is young Black and Latino and young Asian American".
Read through it all. Take notes. Dig into the sources cited. Recognize hearsay.
I don't know why Black is Back is doing what they're doing here. I think it's worth examining. I don't trust the Becker brothers fully, and I'm more inclined to trust marginalized groups than old white guys, so I'm willing to maintain an open mind that PSL is led by bad actors and is part of controlled opposition. That said, the accusations against PSL are not convincing me at this time.
Thanks for summing it up! I think this more or less closes the case.
That said, the accusations against PSL are not convincing me at this time.
Same here. Though i did not like the rude, accusatory tone of PSL's response...
They further state that Becker said PSL is under white leadership,
This frustrated me. When you go listen to the actual interview this is not what he said at all.
However if such conflicts and accusations persist in the future i think Becker should step down and allow some of that younger leadership he was talking about to take over.
There have been other flare ups in the past. The Beckers have been active for a very long time, there's bound to be some accusations and some actual missteps.
I think critical support is the order of the day - both for PSL and for APSP. They could both be in the wrong here, in different ways.
I think critical support is the order of the day - both for PSL and for APSP.
Completely agree.
They could both be in the wrong here, in different ways.
That's what it looks like to me. I cannot in good conscience say that either of them has acted perfectly. But i have long been of the opinion that expecting perfection from revolutionary, anti-imperialist and anti-colonial resistance movements is wrecker behavior.
Too bad, my brother was considering joining his local org, is it still worth it for him
👌cool sending word, so glad he didn’t quit while he was a Bernie Bro lol
