• Audeamus [any]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Tolkien got better over time.

      In the Hobbit, the class story is "fat rich boring kulak can be a badass hero - maybe because he comes from an adventurous bloodline on his mother's side".

      In Rings, it becomes "fat rich kulak can be a badass hero - but only with the help of the landless bum who is actually noble of spirit".

      Maybe he'd have gotten to "hobbits and orcs have more in common with each other than with Aragorn or Sauron" eventually.

      • doublepepperoni [none/use name]
        hexagon
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        I am now imagining those socialist realist USSR & China friendship posters but with orcs and hobbits, working on fields or milling grain or something

        Edit: Wasn't the LOTR sequel Tolkien briefly worked on before he trashed it essentially about an evil Satanic conspiracy to overthrow the monarchy of Aragorn's grandson

      • PrincessMagnificent [they/them, any]
        ·
        4 years ago

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer

        Eskov bases his novel on the premise that the Tolkien account is a "history written by the victors".[2][3] Eskov's version of the story describes Mordor as a peaceful constitutional monarchy on the verge of an industrial revolution, that poses a threat to the war-mongering and imperialistic faction represented by Gandalf (whose attitude has been described by Saruman as "crafting the Final Solution to the Mordorian problem") and the racist elves.[2] For example, Barad-dûr, Sauron's citadel, appears in chapter 2 as

        ...that amazing city of alchemists and poets, mechanics and astronomers, philosophers and physicians, the heart of the only civilization in Middle-earth to bet on rational knowledge and bravely pitch its barely adolescent technology against ancient magic. The shining tower of the Barad-dûr citadel rose over the plains of Mordor almost as high as Orodruin like a monument to Man – free Man who had politely but firmly declined the guardianship of the Dwellers on High and started living by his own reason. It was a challenge to the bone-headed aggressive West, which was still picking lice in its log ‘castles’ to the monotonous chanting of scalds extolling the wonders of never-existing Númenor.
        

        The tale begins by recapping the War of the Ring. The Ring itself is a luxurious ornament, but powerless, crafted by the Nazgûl (a group of ancient scientists and philosophers who take turns as the Nine to guide Mordor through its industrialization) to distract Gandalf and the Elves while Mordor built up its army. Aragorn is portrayed as a puppet of the Elves who has been instructed to usurp the throne of Gondor by murdering Boromir (whom he had discovered alone after Merry and Pippin were captured) before Gandalf removes Denethor. Arwen, being 3000 years older, holds Aragorn in contempt but uses their marriage to cement Elvish rule over Gondor. Faramir has been exiled to Ithilien where he is kept under guard with Éowyn. The Elves have also corrupted (using New-Age style mysticism) the youth of Umbar, which they aim to use as a foothold into Harad and Khand.

      • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        In the Hobbit, the class story is “fat rich boring kulak can be a badass hero - maybe because he comes from an adventurous bloodline on his mother’s side”.

        The Hobbit was woke in its own way. It told the story of a diaspora of bourgeoise landlords who were so keen on recovering their property that they'd risk their own lives and throw every neighboring country into chaos in order to reclaim a giant mountain full of shiny rocks. They were belligerent, curmudgeonly, reckless, rude, and routinely quite cowardly for all their bluster. They needed to drag in a petite bourgeoise "burglar" to do all their dirty work, while demeaning him every step of the way.

        And when they'd finally lucked into the impossible - luring out the monster on top of their treasure long enough for a neighboring archer to put an arrow in its heart - they proceeded to behave just as miserly as the dragon they'd dispossesed. They kicked off a race-war for their troubles, and proceeded to lose around half their number long after the dragon was dead. In the end, King Thorin was buried with his beloved treasure, while Bilbo came home with a pony-full of wealth and a head full of horrors.

        In hindsight, Bilbo's "heroics" were far more about being practical enough to survive while his companions were constantly throwing themselves to the wolves. He juxtaposed the humble civilian's level-headedness against the reactionary Zionist's zealotry. And he embodied the adventurer's spirit as a person wishing to simply experience the larger world against the mercenary's spirit of ones who wished to loot and plunder it.

        It's a fundamentally liberal story. But it's still a better one than you're giving it credit.

        • Audeamus [any]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Tolkien's dwarves are an Antisemitic caricature at their worst (though not as bad as the racist descriptions of orc-aligned humans in LotR) ... but yeah, at the end of the day it's a great story of timeless lessons about human nature. I enjoy it immensely and heartily second your comment. Don't take my mockery too seriously.

          • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Tolkien’s dwarves are an Antisemitic caricature at their worst

            Mostly because he cribbed them from Wagner. And, I suspect, also because he was English. The English literally can't not be racist. I think it's genetic.

            Don’t take my mockery too seriously.

            Christ, I'd be on the wrong website if I did.

    • BezosDied [any]
      ·
      4 years ago

      the 19th century South African who restructured folklore around race science was not, it turns out, based

    • discontinuuity [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      In a way Saruman was doing a Great Leap Forward by industrializing Isengard

      • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Saruman was doing a capitalist industrial revolution, complete with social caste system and colonization of native lands.

        Reject Modernity. Return to Horsey.

    • chantox
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      deleted by creator

  • SocialistWombat [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    No joke, I gave up on LoTR when Frodo bought property in Rivendel. 11 yr old me knew something was sus.