I heard the moving van they were in had a painting of the twin towers on its side that said "9/11". Like you said, it sounds too outlandish to be true.
I don’t think our intelligence agencies or our state dept or executive branch of government have ever been close to as competent as they would have needed to be to literally orchestrate the event themselves, also there would be too many people who would put the foot down at that.
What got me to think differently was the realization that somebody was, by necessity, competent enough and willing to carry it out. It was either 20+ Al Qaeda guys, or a few dozen intelligence guys. If a rag tag group could pull it off without question, but not the most well-funded and established intelligence agencies in the world, does that really make sense? I think the ruling class is more competent than they like to let on when it comes to doing crime to maintain their status. They appear incompetent when they do stuff they don't give a shit about, like passing healthcare. NORAD had a good success rate intercepting hijacked airplanes, but on the morning of 9/11 they were doing drills.
An FBI translator named Sibel Edmonds uncovered evidence that the US was communicating with OBL as late as 2002.
Interesting page. What I mean is that if they were in on it it would be more like the CIA giving OBL funding and playbooks/training on how to carry something like that out, not planned demolition or even anything that would have directly involved Bush or even most of the people in his administration (the major exception being the state dept lifers and Cheney). We certainly did fund him in the 80s to fuck with Russia in Afghanistan, the accounts of those operations are legitimately funny in The Looming Tower—they were like shooting off CIA-provided rockets or spray and praying mountains then running back to their hiding spots but it was very amateurish, very Bad News Bears esque. Osama may have just been pissed the CIA left him out to dry after the USSR collapsed and there was no conflict for him in the Middle East to play hero in. This is an interesting read:
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3340101
I just don’t think it’s inconceivable that you can cause that sort of havoc if you have 19 men willing to die for your cause. Extremely unlikely they’d be able to kill 3,000 people but they also got lucky the towers collapsed and it’s honestly a miracle that more didn’t die. And I’m not sure what NORAD could have even done, I bet whoever was in charge was partially relieved he didn’t have to make the call to shoot down the 2 planes that hit the towers... that would have been one of the hardest decisions to make of all time. They would’ve had to shoot them down over a populated area since their flight path put them above some of the most densely populated areas of the country the whole time and it happened very quickly. Plus the hijackers themselves were claiming they were going to land the plane somewhere which is what hijackers typically had done prior to 9/11. I think once they had control of the planes it was already way too late.
I’d have to look at the timeline again but it wouldn’t be the craziest thing if flight 93 had been shot down and that was covered up (I’m not even sure if that’s a conspiracy) but again we have phone calls from people on the plane and cockpit transmission that make the passengers stormed the cockpit so they nosedived story much more plausible. And whoever did shoot it down and everyone else who knew about it would have had to keep that quiet this whole time. It seems counterintuitive but getting 19 incels to commit jihad for a charismatic leader like OBL actually makes much more sense than dozens of feds coordinating a plan to kill their neighbors to enrich guys like Dick Cheney.
Love the discussion and either way the cover up/obfuscation and response was fucking criminal.
Edit: and when i say Bush probably didn’t know it’s not because he would’ve put the foot down or anything, I think he’s just too stupid to have in the loop on executing this thing. I think Bush being naive was huge in helping the real players like Cheney and Rove get the balling rolling on Iraq. Having Bush seem sincere and genuine with his reactions helped make the propaganda more effective
I heard the moving van they were in had a painting of the twin towers on its side that said "9/11". Like you said, it sounds too outlandish to be true.
What got me to think differently was the realization that somebody was, by necessity, competent enough and willing to carry it out. It was either 20+ Al Qaeda guys, or a few dozen intelligence guys. If a rag tag group could pull it off without question, but not the most well-funded and established intelligence agencies in the world, does that really make sense? I think the ruling class is more competent than they like to let on when it comes to doing crime to maintain their status. They appear incompetent when they do stuff they don't give a shit about, like passing healthcare. NORAD had a good success rate intercepting hijacked airplanes, but on the morning of 9/11 they were doing drills.
An FBI translator named Sibel Edmonds uncovered evidence that the US was communicating with OBL as late as 2002.
Interesting page. What I mean is that if they were in on it it would be more like the CIA giving OBL funding and playbooks/training on how to carry something like that out, not planned demolition or even anything that would have directly involved Bush or even most of the people in his administration (the major exception being the state dept lifers and Cheney). We certainly did fund him in the 80s to fuck with Russia in Afghanistan, the accounts of those operations are legitimately funny in The Looming Tower—they were like shooting off CIA-provided rockets or spray and praying mountains then running back to their hiding spots but it was very amateurish, very Bad News Bears esque. Osama may have just been pissed the CIA left him out to dry after the USSR collapsed and there was no conflict for him in the Middle East to play hero in. This is an interesting read:
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3340101
I just don’t think it’s inconceivable that you can cause that sort of havoc if you have 19 men willing to die for your cause. Extremely unlikely they’d be able to kill 3,000 people but they also got lucky the towers collapsed and it’s honestly a miracle that more didn’t die. And I’m not sure what NORAD could have even done, I bet whoever was in charge was partially relieved he didn’t have to make the call to shoot down the 2 planes that hit the towers... that would have been one of the hardest decisions to make of all time. They would’ve had to shoot them down over a populated area since their flight path put them above some of the most densely populated areas of the country the whole time and it happened very quickly. Plus the hijackers themselves were claiming they were going to land the plane somewhere which is what hijackers typically had done prior to 9/11. I think once they had control of the planes it was already way too late.
I’d have to look at the timeline again but it wouldn’t be the craziest thing if flight 93 had been shot down and that was covered up (I’m not even sure if that’s a conspiracy) but again we have phone calls from people on the plane and cockpit transmission that make the passengers stormed the cockpit so they nosedived story much more plausible. And whoever did shoot it down and everyone else who knew about it would have had to keep that quiet this whole time. It seems counterintuitive but getting 19 incels to commit jihad for a charismatic leader like OBL actually makes much more sense than dozens of feds coordinating a plan to kill their neighbors to enrich guys like Dick Cheney.
Love the discussion and either way the cover up/obfuscation and response was fucking criminal.
Edit: and when i say Bush probably didn’t know it’s not because he would’ve put the foot down or anything, I think he’s just too stupid to have in the loop on executing this thing. I think Bush being naive was huge in helping the real players like Cheney and Rove get the balling rolling on Iraq. Having Bush seem sincere and genuine with his reactions helped make the propaganda more effective
-Soulja