Nah you're alright, we were all where you are once and we still want the same things for the same reasons. To be specific, by lib we mean the dedicated neoliberal types, blue maga deadenders and such. The kind of people who will pull out some chart to rationalize why the market says some people have to die, actually. As a Bernia Sanders socialist you've probably had them smugly lecture you about the (literally negative!) price of healthcare while nodding sagely along with the latest grotesque military budget. If talking to those dorks makes you grind your teeth, you'll probably vibe well with Hexbear
I canvassed for Bernie in 2019 and while I no longer identify with him due to disagreements over foreign policy, I definitely wouldn't be where I am now without the visibility his two campaigns brought to basic, humane socialist ideals.
I'm already lib left and although I'm always open to more political ideas, economically, I will always believe in a regulated capitalist system. Now at this point, all of Hexbear is cussing me out. Yes, it would probably be an ideal world if everybody gets along and nobody exploits each other but it's just the inner human greed we all have that prevents this, so I don't think it's a realistic goal. As many have mentioned though, I'll check out the Jakarta Method. Maybe it will turn me into an Anarcho Communist.
The "inner human greed" is the system reproducing itself, based on profit and all that. Humans don't have metaphysical stuff in them, just like kings don't have the divine right to rule. We're all educated to believe that this is how things always have been, and always will. That's why we struggle to imagine any alternative system, and we struggle to understand that things do change. I'm still learning as well, so not sure if I was clear
It's cool that you cam here in good faith to discuss, and I hope you do go ahead and read and learn more. The Jakarta Method alone rather elucidates the horrific crimes done by well regulated capitalist systems..
Looked more into The Jakarta method. That's insane that the US started bombing civilians and started putting people in concentration camps. I think around 1 million were killed? Fucking brutal and I've never heard about it. The 30% in Indonesia went from loud and proud to silenced and murdered. Still, I was hoping this would've shed more light on how communism could work out.
I think their point in mentioning it is understanding the barbarity of the capitalist world order.
The question of "how [socialism] could work out" can be debated endlessly, but the grave element of the question is how to prevent liberal capitalism from being restored and how to survive capitalist encirclement. The libertarian navel-gazing about "incentive to work" and so on has always been bullshit and is frankly not a real issue.
If you want the technical details of how the building blocks' of communism would be realized, you would have to look into Project Cybersyn, but that's some real deep lore only commie nerds really know about
Probably best to take it slow and begin with the Principles
Any communist that believes that communism comes about because 'everybody just gets along and doesn't exploit each other', has A) not actually read or internalized any Marxist theory, and B) doesn't have a good understanding of ideology, it's influence, and how it historically develops and becomes relevant.
Being overwhelmed by a flood of responses is totally normal, but it is worth noting that not a single person is doing this unless you are getting hostile DMs or something (in which case please report it so we can ban the users responsible
it's just the inner human greed we all have that prevents this
My comrade, you just made a great argument against capitalism. If humans are intrinsically greedy, then why should we reward that behaviour? If that is the case, we should build an economic system which incentivizes sharing, instead of a system which incentivizes greed.
I will always believe in a regulated capitalist system
Who is going to regulate capitalism? The capitalist class is the ruling class in capitalism, do you truly expect that they are going to regulate themselves? Besides, even regulations won't stop them, since capitalists can sue nations - and win.
Anyway, reading theory is great but I also recommend listening to podcasts. Chapo Trap House and True Anon are some great starting points. And of course, keep lurking on Hexbear and asking questions, we love to discuss when it is in good faith
Ah, that's what Chapo Trap House is for. I've always wondered what that is. I'll check that out for sure. Also yes, I agree that a well regulated capitalist economic system wouldn't be easy since the rich will just try to exploit more and more. I guess no system will ever work then 🤷♂️ since with both systems people will always try exploiting each other for power and profit.
I canvassed for Bernie in 2019 and while I no longer identify with him due to disagreements over foreign policy, I definitely wouldn’t be where I am now without the visibility his two campaigns brought to basic, humane socialist ideals.
The Bernie campaigns minted an entire new generation of socialists in the United States. He's always gonna get massive credit for that in my book.
I know, I mostly just wanted to complain about feeling old because I did a rally yesterday and then a Halloween party until like 4am and am a wreck now (and yet can't sleep).
That ain't old, the fact you could even go to a rally and a Halloween party shows you are plenty youthful! I don't even think of myself as old and I don't have the energy for that sort of thing usually haha.
I don't think so. That's where a lot of us were 4 years ago. The events of the last decade have made it very difficult to believe in the possibility of voting our way to freedom.
If you're a Bernie Sanders liberal and refuse to acknowledge viewpoints to the left of that you'll get dunked on by hexbears. If you're willing to learn leftist theory you're golden.
I mean, the sad truth is that Bernie and most "left liberals" are letting down the INTERNATIONAL working class. I liked Fetterman, but he's decided to support Israel at a CRITICAL moment in the Palestinian struggle against a genocide being perpetrated against them by Israel
fwiw I dont think anyone here hates liberal workers. We hate the machine that keeps turning everyone in the developed world into a monster. We're all on the Last Train to Nuremburg rn, I dont think a lot of good hearted leftsts understand that yet
I'm one of the few people who didn't get here through supporting Bernie Sanders (but I got here through being radicalised by the labour parties coup of Corbyn so it's basically the same thing) but yeah, we were all there once.
we also have the most comments. never stop posting
So if I'm just a normal bernie sanders in terms of political ideology, you guys would probably hate me huh.
Nah you're alright, we were all where you are once and we still want the same things for the same reasons. To be specific, by lib we mean the dedicated neoliberal types, blue maga deadenders and such. The kind of people who will pull out some chart to rationalize why the market says some people have to die, actually. As a Bernia Sanders socialist you've probably had them smugly lecture you about the (literally negative!) price of healthcare while nodding sagely along with the latest grotesque military budget. If talking to those dorks makes you grind your teeth, you'll probably vibe well with Hexbear
I canvassed for Bernie in 2019 and while I no longer identify with him due to disagreements over foreign policy, I definitely wouldn't be where I am now without the visibility his two campaigns brought to basic, humane socialist ideals.
I'm already lib left and although I'm always open to more political ideas, economically, I will always believe in a regulated capitalist system. Now at this point, all of Hexbear is cussing me out. Yes, it would probably be an ideal world if everybody gets along and nobody exploits each other but it's just the inner human greed we all have that prevents this, so I don't think it's a realistic goal. As many have mentioned though, I'll check out the Jakarta Method. Maybe it will turn me into an Anarcho Communist.
A regulated capitalist system just means ”the child labor is done in other countries”.
The "inner human greed" is the system reproducing itself, based on profit and all that. Humans don't have metaphysical stuff in them, just like kings don't have the divine right to rule. We're all educated to believe that this is how things always have been, and always will. That's why we struggle to imagine any alternative system, and we struggle to understand that things do change. I'm still learning as well, so not sure if I was clear
It's cool that you cam here in good faith to discuss, and I hope you do go ahead and read and learn more. The Jakarta Method alone rather elucidates the horrific crimes done by well regulated capitalist systems..
Looked more into The Jakarta method. That's insane that the US started bombing civilians and started putting people in concentration camps. I think around 1 million were killed? Fucking brutal and I've never heard about it. The 30% in Indonesia went from loud and proud to silenced and murdered. Still, I was hoping this would've shed more light on how communism could work out.
I think their point in mentioning it is understanding the barbarity of the capitalist world order.
The question of "how [socialism] could work out" can be debated endlessly, but the grave element of the question is how to prevent liberal capitalism from being restored and how to survive capitalist encirclement. The libertarian navel-gazing about "incentive to work" and so on has always been bullshit and is frankly not a real issue.
If you want the technical details of how the building blocks' of communism would be realized, you would have to look into Project Cybersyn, but that's some real deep lore only commie nerds really know about
Probably best to take it slow and begin with the Principles
Any communist that believes that communism comes about because 'everybody just gets along and doesn't exploit each other', has A) not actually read or internalized any Marxist theory, and B) doesn't have a good understanding of ideology, it's influence, and how it historically develops and becomes relevant.
Being overwhelmed by a flood of responses is totally normal, but it is worth noting that not a single person is doing this unless you are getting hostile DMs or something (in which case please report it so we can ban the users responsible
deleted by creator
My comrade, you just made a great argument against capitalism. If humans are intrinsically greedy, then why should we reward that behaviour? If that is the case, we should build an economic system which incentivizes sharing, instead of a system which incentivizes greed.
Who is going to regulate capitalism? The capitalist class is the ruling class in capitalism, do you truly expect that they are going to regulate themselves? Besides, even regulations won't stop them, since capitalists can sue nations - and win.
Anyway, reading theory is great but I also recommend listening to podcasts. Chapo Trap House and True Anon are some great starting points. And of course, keep lurking on Hexbear and asking questions, we love to discuss when it is in good faith
Ah, that's what Chapo Trap House is for. I've always wondered what that is. I'll check that out for sure. Also yes, I agree that a well regulated capitalist economic system wouldn't be easy since the rich will just try to exploit more and more. I guess no system will ever work then 🤷♂️ since with both systems people will always try exploiting each other for power and profit.
Wow this has been real touchy-feely-friendly. I guess I'll be the one to say
The Bernie campaigns minted an entire new generation of socialists in the United States. He's always gonna get massive credit for that in my book.
We don't hate you but we think you should read The Jakarta Method 😉
deleted by creator
that's y leftist r never united..the constant dunking
Lenin is our greatest poster
like 90% of us used to just be bernie sanders supporters and went from there
I'm in the 10% that's just old as fuck.
Also, maybe it's just the news mega but I feel like a lot more than 10% of us aren't from the states.
you caught me, I made the number up
I know, I mostly just wanted to complain about feeling old because I did a rally yesterday and then a Halloween party until like 4am and am a wreck now (and yet can't sleep).
That ain't old, the fact you could even go to a rally and a Halloween party shows you are plenty youthful! I don't even think of myself as old and I don't have the energy for that sort of thing usually haha.
I don't think so. That's where a lot of us were 4 years ago. The events of the last decade have made it very difficult to believe in the possibility of voting our way to freedom.
maybe check out The Jakarta Method or the podcast Blowback though if you want some help with that.
If you're a Bernie Sanders liberal and refuse to acknowledge viewpoints to the left of that you'll get dunked on by hexbears. If you're willing to learn leftist theory you're golden.
I mean, the sad truth is that Bernie and most "left liberals" are letting down the INTERNATIONAL working class. I liked Fetterman, but he's decided to support Israel at a CRITICAL moment in the Palestinian struggle against a genocide being perpetrated against them by Israel
fwiw I dont think anyone here hates liberal workers. We hate the machine that keeps turning everyone in the developed world into a monster. We're all on the Last Train to Nuremburg rn, I dont think a lot of good hearted leftsts understand that yet
I'm one of the few people who didn't get here through supporting Bernie Sanders (but I got here through being radicalised by the labour parties coup of Corbyn so it's basically the same thing) but yeah, we were all there once.