In this video I think it's demonstrated incredibly powerfully what importance needs to be placed upon anti-horse tools.

The horses do the bulk of the work in creating space that allows the police line to tighten the noose here. Without them they never would have controlled these crowds with people on multiple sides of them. They could not have maintained control.

There must be simply and effective methods to spook these horses without causing a danger to them. Something that could be deployed that would make the riders tell their superiors "we can't deploy because the horses would be spooked by x".

Anyway. What are other people's thoughts here? Obviously this protest was unprepared for a fight (although several police have been hospitalised). What could small groups of 1-5 have done in the wider engagement to make things go differently?

  • hauntingspectre [he/him]
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    edit-2
    4 years ago

    The problem is, the discipline required mandates significant training with a group. There's a reason that even though pikes were around as a weapon, cavalry was still effective for centuries after the first medieval pike victories. Edit: to expand a little, the effective early pike users of the medieval era were Flemish & Swiss militias, who drilled and trained together repeatedly, and the Scots, who I assume were just pissed enough at the English to not break. Eventually everyone adopted the pike & drill as the answer to cavalry. The pike mutated and shrank over the years as infantry firepower increased, eventually becoming the plug, then ring bayonet. It turns out even a 5-6 foot long wooden stick with a knife on it, which is what a musket & bayonet is, is sufficient in well drilled hands to deter cavalry. (Any hints taken about the size & design of the sticks your protest signs are mounted on are completely left to your own imagination).

    That's a big ask for folks you might have met an hour before, and also why traditionally cavalry was the urban anti riot solution.

    Effective defenses against them in an urban situation relied on barricades and channeling the cavalry into alleys, where the cavalry could be flanked and Minecrafted. In addition, especially in older European cities, dropping roof slates onto the cavalry was the urban worker's answer. Helmets don't matter when ten pounds of stone lands on your head. I can't recall if the "stretch a rope across a street" idea ever happened or if my memory is filling in gaps with Looney Tunes cartoons.

    Edit: I did mention barricades. To expand on some thoughts I've had about that, organized groups of protesters should start practicing using cars & trucks for barricade & escort duty, particularly since "driving into the crowd" attacks were pretty common last summer and will likely only become more frequent. So , a few cars at walking speed ahead of the protest to block off intersections they pass through, with other groups behind and on parallel streets.

    (Thank you medieval history degree I rarely use)

    • vertexarray [any]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Some things never change! As long as we live, people will probably be tussling with cavalry.

    • Nationalgoatism [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      As for the stretched cable, I know chilean protesters used a cable attached to fixed anchors to stop a literal APC. I'm not sure how well it would work against horses

      • RedArmor [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        It’s extremely easy to stop and halt APCs. Obscure all vindows and vision blocks. Certain barricades they will get stuck on. They need a lot of room to move and turn wide so channeling them into tight specs helps. A big APC is scary but if you can get people on it or near it then you will be able to damage radio equipment, lights, and people’s ability to use it.

    • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
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      edit-2
      4 years ago

      I remember seeing something about bringing a spool or two of fishing line and laying it at ankle/knee height to prevent charges like this. It'll trip up unmounted cops and break their advance, but don't know how well it would work with mounties. Would the horses get tripped up/spooked by fishing line?

      Bonus for this tactic, if they're using smoke/tear gas the line is essentially invisible and after two or three instances of eating shit because they charged into line, they'll start slowing their charges even without line.

      • hauntingspectre [he/him]
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        edit-2
        4 years ago

        I think tripping them would depend on how heavy the line is and how well secured it is, as well as what the horse is doing. The kinetic energy of a horse at gallop is... impressive.

        I think someone who has more personal experience with horses would be better able to answer if it would spook them.

        Edit: I suppose more of a net arrangement with cans on the end could be effective, as the horse's legs would be entangled and the noise would follow them, which should spook them.

        Although I mentioned in another answer below, horses in a blind panic are incredibly dangerous. If one panics into a crowd at full speed, people will die, between the horse & the ensuing crowd stampede and possible crush. Human stampedes are deadly! The Hillsborough disaster killed 96 people, for example.

      • Awoo [she/her]
        hexagon
        ·
        4 years ago

        This was actually a concept I discussed in a thread when I was looking at potential ways to prevent the American cop charges. Those charges rely on the energy of the rush to spook undisciplined protesters and basically anything on the ground between the protesters and cops would prevent the cops from rushing with the energy they want to.