Communism would be recognizing the material conditions that lead to revolution and understanding that any situation that results in a storming of the palace will necessarily produce the violence which kills the royal family (or whoever sits atop the political hierarchy). Morality is not a factor in understanding the unfolding of history
Morality is not a factor in understanding the unfolding of history
Insert the Marx quote about changing the world rather than simply interpreting it here.
Insert the Paulo Freire quote about how without liberatory education the oppressed dream of becoming oppressors beneath it.
Look, the Romanov kids are a century dead and no amount of monday-morning quarterbacking will change what happened. And if it had to happen for the political or military survival of the revolution, then so be it. But I'd like to think that people nominally comitted to creating a better world would engage with what happened and try to think of how things could be done better next time, instead of just gleefully celebrating kids' deaths or saying, "well that's history for you."
I keep trying to write out long and thoughtful responses but I just keep coming back to the fact that that’s bourgeois morality. A mass class political action will form its own moral boundaries separate from what you envision is acceptable in this time and moment. And I don’t even necessarily disagree with you along moral lines, but I’m also a subject of petty bourgeois morality so of course I don’t. In a moment of revolution the proletariat will decide their moral lines in the moment and we will have no voice to tell them one way or the other
A mass class political action will form its own moral boundaries separate from what you envision is acceptable in this time and moment.
Of course it will, and for the record I'm not even condmening the soldiers who did the killing. I understand it was done in the context of a chaotic moment, and that none of us have any way of knowing what was going through the soldiers' heads as they confronted these living embodiments of their oppression.
What frustrates me about this post is that it doesn't seem to be about understanding those soldiers in that morally complicated situation, it seems to just be about celebrating violence for violence's sake. I know we're all powerless and tramautized and would all love to shove our bosses feet-first into a woodchipper, but I'd like to think there's a difference between celebrating kings getting theirs and kids getting merked.
In a moment of revolution the proletariat will decide their moral lines in the moment and we will have no voice to tell them one way or the other
We are the proletariat, man. I really hope that if any kind of revolution happens in our lifetimes, our moral lines will exclude killing Jeff Bezos' grandkids.
Edit: Unless those grandkids are old enough to be scumbag billionaires in their own right, in which case :gui-better: :gui-better: :gui-better:
Fair solution. "Bozos" is probably too on the nose as far as name changes go, maybe "Bes?" That sounds like a name some Greek working class immigrant would be forcibly given at Ellis Island.
:cat-confused: are we really going to do this? A proletarian revolution will not be fascist in nature despite its actions solely because it will be on the behalf of the proletariat, rather than in service of bourgeois or petty bourgeois social formations. Hate to break it to you but Parenti was right that a secret police are necessary regardless of anyone’s moral disagreements to them. Torture is terrible and yet it’s still happened across most every given historical socialist project. Disavowing a socialist project because it doesn’t fit your moral sensibilities is just carrying water for imperialism
The revolution will not solve all of society’s ills by the next day. You will never live to see your perfect imagined society even if you somehow live to see the global people’s revolution
Communism would be recognizing the material conditions that lead to revolution and understanding that any situation that results in a storming of the palace will necessarily produce the violence which kills the royal family (or whoever sits atop the political hierarchy). Morality is not a factor in understanding the unfolding of history
Insert the Marx quote about changing the world rather than simply interpreting it here.
Insert the Paulo Freire quote about how without liberatory education the oppressed dream of becoming oppressors beneath it.
Look, the Romanov kids are a century dead and no amount of monday-morning quarterbacking will change what happened. And if it had to happen for the political or military survival of the revolution, then so be it. But I'd like to think that people nominally comitted to creating a better world would engage with what happened and try to think of how things could be done better next time, instead of just gleefully celebrating kids' deaths or saying, "well that's history for you."
I keep trying to write out long and thoughtful responses but I just keep coming back to the fact that that’s bourgeois morality. A mass class political action will form its own moral boundaries separate from what you envision is acceptable in this time and moment. And I don’t even necessarily disagree with you along moral lines, but I’m also a subject of petty bourgeois morality so of course I don’t. In a moment of revolution the proletariat will decide their moral lines in the moment and we will have no voice to tell them one way or the other
Of course it will, and for the record I'm not even condmening the soldiers who did the killing. I understand it was done in the context of a chaotic moment, and that none of us have any way of knowing what was going through the soldiers' heads as they confronted these living embodiments of their oppression.
What frustrates me about this post is that it doesn't seem to be about understanding those soldiers in that morally complicated situation, it seems to just be about celebrating violence for violence's sake. I know we're all powerless and tramautized and would all love to shove our bosses feet-first into a woodchipper, but I'd like to think there's a difference between celebrating kings getting theirs and kids getting merked.
We are the proletariat, man. I really hope that if any kind of revolution happens in our lifetimes, our moral lines will exclude killing Jeff Bezos' grandkids.
Edit: Unless those grandkids are old enough to be scumbag billionaires in their own right, in which case :gui-better: :gui-better: :gui-better:
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Fair solution. "Bozos" is probably too on the nose as far as name changes go, maybe "Bes?" That sounds like a name some Greek working class immigrant would be forcibly given at Ellis Island.
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deleted by creator
:cat-confused: are we really going to do this? A proletarian revolution will not be fascist in nature despite its actions solely because it will be on the behalf of the proletariat, rather than in service of bourgeois or petty bourgeois social formations. Hate to break it to you but Parenti was right that a secret police are necessary regardless of anyone’s moral disagreements to them. Torture is terrible and yet it’s still happened across most every given historical socialist project. Disavowing a socialist project because it doesn’t fit your moral sensibilities is just carrying water for imperialism
The revolution will not solve all of society’s ills by the next day. You will never live to see your perfect imagined society even if you somehow live to see the global people’s revolution
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You are right.
Well that's history for you.
:owned:
:this: