MLRL_Commie [comrade/them, he/him]

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Joined 2 months ago
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Cake day: November 10th, 2024

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  • Who is the revolutionary subject in the class struggle between men and women? My point is this: the people who can see oppression of women and want to change it can be "saved" in the sense that they can be non-misogynyst and work towards the Liberation of women. The others are not subjects to be worked with on this front, and due to their material conditions won't be until we can shift those conditions.

    This is all in response to the idea of a leftist pipeline through a "leftist Joe Rogan" or something of the sort. My point is that there is nobody who is important to work with on the topic who will be moved at all by such a thing. It's a tactic which mismatches with the target group. The people for whom a pipeline is needed won't react to it (because of material conditions at the moment) so the focus should be on their conditions. The people who would react to that pipeline wouldn't have any interest in it, because they are already sympathetic.

    It might help some very unique cases, but it's not relevant to any bigger movement.



  • I never said online, and in fact had in mind direct confrontation from people physically near you. I'm thinking here of a woman calling a misogynist a pig. But I also think that "shaming" as a tactic hasn't succeeded because of the material conditions of men in society, of course. So the ones who are salvageable will change after some shaming (and I will admit to being raised misogynistically and leaving that behind after being confronted by people, so I'm a direct example), and those who aren't won't be saved. The big shift people have imagined +and blame feminism for not achieving) is entirely because of the patriarchal society and it's structures reinforcing misogyny.


  • My post wasn't aimed at you, comrade. I think asking for resources as a comrade to improve socializing as a man is great! (I see your pronouns, from your OP I'm assuming you identify as a man, please let me know if I'm wrong and I'll change immediately)

    I unfortunately think there are no such resources that I've found. I think reading feminist theory and attempting to "look in the mirror" simultaneously is a difficult, rigorous, but very fruitful exercise with similar results. But that's not what you're searching for, and I get that.

    I'd love to have a wholesome "here's what good dad's should be like" podcast to listen to. Or some more totally anti-misogynistic chats between guys talking about life generally. I was hoping to find it in your thread too!


  • I think I'm saying the opposite of that: there's no way to build relationships without learning to be a good person and understanding your social situation. It's not some guarantee of anything, and you don't measure goodness backwards by companions. Being good is just 1 of the prerequisites to having happy companionships. Sorry if it sounds like I'm flipping cause/effect or the measurability here; I'm not.

    There are of course people who desire to have a relationship with misogynists (to some extent, otherwise a lot of famous men would never have had children), but the best solution to being happy and having happy companions is being a good person (among other things, because of course it's complex with desires/attraction/social expectations). That's my point.

    Edit: removed 'ticket' as a phrase because it is not useful to my point and the conversation to adopt the terms of the 'target group ' when their position is the problem. Also I guess my point originally was to emphasize that men frustrated with a lack of companionship/relationships and searching for "answers" are almost definitely in need of learning to be a good person first. And you can't build a pipeline to "good person status" out of podcasts discussing 'getting girls'.

    There are definitely people who want relationships, aren't shitty, and are lacking companionship. These people don't need that sort of podcast, but something else to help with e.g. social experiences or relating to others. This is some good stuff that should be made. But the original post I replied to was insinuating it as a leftist pipeline. That's not what a podcast focussed on already good people would be.


  • "gets girls" Nah don't say that, this is the sort of shit that makes women feel uncomfortable on Hexbear.

    (Edit: I also think that a podcast for already not misogynist people is a good idea. That's just a bad form for a pipeline to the left.)

    Asking for a podcast which is aimed towards helping men understand their social situation and how to be good people (and how that is the real trick to building companionship or even short term relationships) is good and a good idea. I think it should be treated as a "reeducation" but without framing it that way (just an advertising tactic). This small tactical shift will make it a totally different idea which must be implemented at some other juncture in people's lives (starting super early, in combination with feminist theories against misogyny, etc).

    If the simple "Joe Rogan for leftists" idea is followed it just won't be effective in the patriarchal society we have built. Misogynists (and here I include the average person in a society built on misogyny, not just outright hate spewing bastards) aren't looking to resolve issues, but find that one trick to "get girls", while seeing them as the objects of their desires. One podcast episode will never hook these people to listen to more: the strategy must begin elsewhere (like shaming or women denying them their objectification) so that reflection is required. But that reflection is most successful when they are confronted directly.

    If you think the strategy will work I'd be curious of the mechanism. I just find it strategically and tactically a non-starter to solve any of our issues of patriarchy and misogyny as anything except a tool for reeducation


  • I know nothing directly about American credit scores, but I've always thought that it actually makes sense (in a capitalist society trying to make a profit) to give higher scores (and thus more loans with less risk) to those most likely to end up overpaying. So taking loans, paying interest on them, and always paying the minimum to lengthen the time that you provide profits to the creditor is the best way to max score.

    This makes perfect sense. The fact that this score is used to distribute resources instead of just calculating likelihood of paying back/likelihood of profit is what makes this huge contradiction arise. But the scores make perfect sense for being bad when you are "responsible". The score is how profitable it is to loan you money.


  • Interesting post, would've never considered how the terms here relate until you said it. Incels deserve the shit, and it's interesting to consider that we partially identify the cause of their misogyny with their virginity. It's probably true, but catches the volcel comrades with some Flak on the side.

    Incel is still a good insult when it's a misogynist who WANTS sex but can't possibly have an intimate partner willingly have sex due to their misogyny. It pisses them off (sometimes) which is funny, and "misogynist" is often something they're proud of. But next time I use it I'll throw a "no shade to non-misogynyst and chill virgins*