andys_nuts [none/use name]

Goes to show how any decent person who tries to become a cop to help people is quickly drummed out of the job. Either you participate in something like that, realize that the problems with it are impossible for you to solve as one individual working within, and quit, or you start the process of accepting the way things are.

Could easily be more

!guns@hexbear.net

A fair amount of people here are full on "fuck the troops, period," judging by past struggle sessions on this topic. This fits naturally with True Leftist thinking, or not thinking through how we get from a small, mostly powerless movement to a movement large enough to obtain state power -- both of which can be found here in spades.

We can shit on libs all we want, but we can't run from the fact that we need to convince millions of them to see things our way if we want a snowball's chance in hell at getting anything significant done.

We need to get the "mass" part of a mass movement from somewhere. So where are we getting the bulk of people we'll need to seize state power (by whatever means you prefer) if we're writing off all the libs from the jump? Keep in mind that Bernie leaned hard into activating people who aren't ordinarily political, and while that had some success it wasn't close to enough by itself.

If a socialist is to succeed electorally, they either have to run as a Republican

Is there any way this works, or turns out well?

or go entirely scorched earth on people’s perception of contemporary and past America

Look at how much shit Bernie caught for comments as mundane as "Cuba has good healthcare and education." Is tripling down on that approach going to work?

It's not about appealing to chuds, it's about appealing to people who might actually be persuadable, but who aren't currently leftists. There are lots of folks out there who are receptive to all sorts of leftist ideas but balk at something as "tame" as calling Iraq and Afghanistan imperial wars.

If we had decades, maybe we could bring a decent chunk of non-chuds around to the idea that there are precious few things the U.S. has to be proud of. But we don't have the luxury of time, and it's not absolutely necessary to have that at the core of a socialist movement. That can be worked out after we figure out how to get some appreciable amount of political power (and then it'll probably be far easier).

I could imagine it in a generation or two, maybe, but for any mainstream political movement in the next 5-10 years, I'd bet you're right. It's way easier to tell people that the warm fuzzy feelings they have about "American ideals" are fine, but that we need radical change if we want to actually live by them, than it is to tell people that their country is shit and those ideals are shit and they should feel like shit until they destroy it. I'm also struggling to think of any successful socialist movement that's lacked a patriotic element.

Doesn't make us any less socialist.

It does, however, make you a mark.

This is a significant step down even from the absurdity that is horseshoe theory. Horseshoe theory says people too far from the enlightened center are basically the same, but at least it has the sense to not imply that if you keep going right you eventually end up on the left.

:astronaut-1:

Yup, I think this has been a thing in countries without legal abortion for a while.

:cringe:

Interesting article, but what a trash way to talk to a comrade. You're not on reddit.

Pretty much every major manufacturer has a "pre-owned" certification they'll attach to used cars that are in good condition and have low mileage. I think a lot of them are cars that people lease when brand new, but then return after 1-2 years. Knocks the price down and you get assurance that you aren't buying a lemon, something that's been through an accident and has rags for airbags, etc.

Not as cheap or environmentally friendly as getting a 2010 Corolla or something, but easily better than buying new if the concern is safety.

Sounds like the prof misspoke, to be honest. Probably meant "martial" state.

Still worth speaking up about, but not as ridiculous as "martial arts" state.

"Terror" is one of the few topics where Marx doesn't have the best line:

There were two Reigns of Terror, if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.

That Mark Twain guy was alright.

If that wasn't scary enough, it's extremely easy to become a prisoner even if you've done nothing wrong.

• In a lot of places you can spend years in jail pre-trial
• Over 90% of cases end in a plea deal, so you probably won't even get a trial
• If the choice is between having your life destroyed by pre-trial jail time and taking a plea deal, a lot of innocent people are going to take the plea deal

Like you said, :amerikkka:

"People believed a false story that's a carbon copy of some true stories, those fucking fools!"

:trump-anguish:

It is misdirection as far as who the enemy is. It’s not idiots taking ivermectin.

This isn't an either/or thing. Obviously capitalists are part of the problem, but your friendly neighborhood chuds are part of the problem, too. With our deep reserve of posting power we can dunk on both.

Plus, "questioning" should have some focus, or else the questioner is just blowing smoke. @Alaskaball's comment about "well what exactly are you questioning, what exactly do you think is false?" is a good one.

You don't code while freezing your ass off at 5 AM, drinking shitty beer with a relative you only kind of like?