Everytime I have to use some python script I fucking groan. God, what a pain in the ass python is...

  • ButtBidet [he/him]
    ·
    2 years ago

    :downbear:

    • No curly brackets

    • No semi-colons

    • No need to declare variables

    • There's 8 trillion useful and free libraries

    • It's all open source

    • Passing arguments in function calls is so much easier

    • Classes are painless

    DON'T YOU DARE INSULT MY PYTHON YOU LIBERAL

    • captcha [any]
      ·
      2 years ago
      • aesthetics
      • aesthetics
      • defect
      • JavaScript does the same with better package management.
      • same with much other languages, JavaScript, cargo, rust, go, etc.
      • in what languages is this a problem?
      • worst class implementation still in use (close second, C++)
      • ButtBidet [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Try typing your umpteenth semi colon and curly brackets. That shit ain't aesthetics, it's miserable.

        Javascript is owned by Oracle. Go is made by Google. I release that they're both open source, but it's rad that we have a language that's on board with the free software movement, and that's created and maintained by volunteers.

        Passing arguments in static typed language are a pain 😩

        • captcha [any]
          ·
          edit-2
          2 years ago

          If avoiding typing extra characters is high on your list of priorities for a language then you need more experience programming. Higher priorities should revolve around ensuring the code you write works.

          JavaScript is not owned by Oracle, that's Java, which has nothing to do with JavaScript besides curly braces. JavaScript has no license. There is a public reference spec and various (sometimes conflicting) implentations of an interpreter.

          Despite official releases of java being proprietary, there are always compatible releases of OpenJDk which are GPLv2

          Google doesn't own Go either, some ex-google engineers did start it but its BSD license.

          Passing arguments in static typed language are a pain 😩

          :warf-wtf: are you using different types for the same arguements? This is a first class way to break your program. Good python development is constantly manually checking for programmer error as though it was user error. Static languages just do that for you.

          • blue_lives_murder [they/them]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Google doesn’t own Go either, some ex-google engineers did start it but its BSD license.

            in practice google effectively owns go. the language is still rapidly changing and none of those changes happen unless google's ok with it

          • ButtBidet [he/him]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Passing arrays inside C type languages is horrible. Other users already responded to the ownership issue. Honestly I'm just pretending to be mad because I want to see programming struggle session. But obviously I don't want to actually upset anyone.

            • macabrett
              ·
              2 years ago

              Passing arrays inside C type languages is horrible.

              I don't understand this one. C# is one of the most popular C type languages, and there's nothing weird about passing arrays?

              • captcha [any]
                ·
                2 years ago

                Thats because C# is only a "C-type" language in name and curly braces. In reality its just Microsoft Java.

                • macabrett
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  Is Java not also a C derivative?

                  • thisismyrealname [he/him]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    2 years ago

                    not really no. the syntax is similar, but it has more in common with C++ than C.

                    i sort of agree with @ButtBidet on C specifically, where arrays are essentially just syntactic sugar for memory pointers.

                    • macabrett
                      ·
                      2 years ago

                      Sure, I specifically hate writing in C and have no issue saying sending arrays around in C isn't fun. I took "C type languages" as anything in the very specific C++ lineage, considering the very first complaint in this conversation was about semi-colons and brackets. Like, what's a "C type" language even mean if the only option is "C"? I was simply pointing out complaining about passing arrays around in a "C type language" is a weird complaint as your reason for using primarily python as there are a mountain of languages between "Python or C" that don't have that issue.

                  • captcha [any]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    If all you care about is the syntax then yes. But java is so fundamentally different under the hood than C that I would call it its own thing. Like it's hardwired to be OOP, you dont do any manual memory management, and its compiled to run on a special VM. I would say that's wildly different from C.

                    Its like how JavaScript is meant to look like Java but its really far more like LISP under the hood.

                    • macabrett
                      ·
                      2 years ago

                      but we're in a thread talking very specifically about syntax...

                      • captcha [any]
                        ·
                        2 years ago

                        Passing arrays in C isn't hard because of the syntax. Its hard because of how C handles memory. C# and Java are designed to be memory safe so they dont have that problem.

        • PapaEmeritusIII [any]
          ·
          2 years ago

          It’s really not that bad once you’re used to it. If you’re coding for fun, I see how it’d be a pain, but when you’re coding 8hrs a day it quickly becomes second nature

        • macabrett
          ·
          edit-2
          2 years ago

          Try typing your umpteenth semi colon and curly brackets. That shit ain’t aesthetics, it’s miserable.

          Why do you use punctuation in your sentences?

          edit: I should clarify my point. I think the thing that makes python easy to write (uses whitespace as opposed to semi-colons and curly brackets) makes it considerably harder to quickly read. Those symbols mean things and it means your brain can make quick assumptions as you're reviewing code. Which is also a useful facet of punctuation in written language.

        • buh [she/her]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Javascript is owned by Oracle

          are you confusing it with Java?

          • ButtBidet [he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            2 years ago

            "Javascript" trademark

            Edit: feck please just scroll down to the "Trademark" heading, my link didn't work fully

            I realise​ that it's a lot more complicated than "Sun Microsystems made Javascript", but it's nice having a programming language that's in the middle of the free software movement.

        • userse31 [he/him]
          hexagon
          ·
          2 years ago

          Passing arguments in static typed language are a pain 😩

          I've written some C in my time and no, no it isn't.

      • ButtBidet [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Ya cuz Haskell is so damn easy that most programmers prefer it.

        • silent_water [she/her]
          ·
          2 years ago

          there's been some experiments teaching it to children - it's about as easy as python but it's a completely different way of thinking. in some ways, it's easiest to learn if you haven't been introduced to an imperative language already. I'd say they were two totally different skillsets except that you write radically different code in imperative languages that allow for higher-order functions after you've learned Haskell.

      • ButtBidet [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Back in my day we wrote everything in machine language. Want a variable? Fuck you. Want a for loop? Fuck you. Want to move your code to a different CPU? Fuck you in all holes simultaneously.

        • yoink [she/her]
          ·
          2 years ago

          kiddo i've shit out punchcards that are bigger than you, hoooeyy

    • PapaEmeritusIII [any]
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      I mainly code in C/C++ these days, for work reasons

      I can’t stand python anymore. It’s so presumptuous!!! Give me more control over what’s going on under the hood!!! aaaaaaaa

      (I am drunk)

        • PapaEmeritusIII [any]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Oh, yeah, absolutely do what brings you joy. I won’t argue with that. The one time that I programmed for fun in the past two years, I did it with python because it was easy to set up and get going. I’d just never want to use it for the bulk of what I do for serious work.

          If you ever want to give C another try, this (online, fully free) book has a great introduction to it, with python comparisons: https://diveintosystems.org/book/

    • crime [she/her, any]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Just use Ruby, it does just about everything python does and then some, but the package management works and you don't have to struggle against load-bearing whitespace the whole time