Ukraine has a responsibility to make sure US and foreign support isn’t wasted and they’re doing just that.
idk dude, maybe you should stop sending wave after wave after wave of leopards and bradleys into minefields if you want to not waste Western resources
I hope Ukraine kill all these invading Russian motherfuckers and that Putin dies too.
the saddest thing is that at the end of this war, there will be hundreds of thousands if not millions of dead Ukrainians, all who died because of Western hatred. but you won't actually care, will you? the lives of the average Ukrainian mean nothing to you. you could send a hundred Ukrainians to die horrifically in the no man's land and if a Russian stubs his toe because of it, you would call it a worthy sacrifice, because causing the Russians inconvenience and suffering is worth much more than saving the lives of innocent people who have been conscripted at gunpoint.
if it wasn't a worthy sacrifice, and you thought this wholesale slaughter should stop, you would support ending the war, like the left does.
Yes, all because of western hatred, fuck all to do with the people who invaded in the first place. They're all imperalist fucks but takes like this on the situation are just completely braindead.
Holy shit, NATOpedia made an article saying "Hey, there might be actual historical context to this situation and Putin didn't wake up on February 24th and decide to murder a bunch of people because he's a very evil bad bad man and King Zelensky shall slay the dragon and then we all live happily ever after." is actually Russian disinformation? Oh my fucking god. These people are unbearable.
It's so fucking funny. I shared it semi-ironically (the Russian bots are inside your walls) but I also want it to serve as an example of liberal anti-communist biases that permeate Wikifedia and hopefully an exercise for our more liberal acquaintances to practice their critical reading skills.
Hey, that time the Ukrainian state killed people? It wasn't TECHNICALLY an attempted genocide, according to our sixth-time revised definition of the term (rev. 2022). We know they TECHNICALLY outlawed the spoken and written language of a major plurality of their people and TECHNICALLY killed 14,000+ of them, but like, it wasn't a genocide. Russia is doing the genocide. Because Putler is ebil.
It's amazing how thin the veneer of understanding is on empire defenders. They cannot even keep their criticisms of international and national policy differentiated, when it comes to attacking anti-imperialists it's always both. No examination of political economy or national histories, just democratic good guys and auforitarian bad guys.
More than 3,000 civilians were killed as a result of the war in Donbas (2014–2022), but there is no evidence to support the claim that Ukraine committed the genocide of Russian-speaking people or ethnic Russians in Ukraine.[8] Before Russia began its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022, the intensity of the hostilities in the Donbas had been steadily declining since the signing of the Minsk agreements in February 2015.[9] For example, according to Ukrainian authorities, 50 Ukrainian soldiers were killed in clashes with Donbas separatists in 2020.
civilians have died in Donbas but it's not the Ukraine government
things have been getting better since the Minsk agreements (no numbers)
for example, [only] 50 Ukrainian government soldiers died in 2020
That's hilarious. What should happen after signing an agreement is that the violence should stop! Gtfo with this things were getting better but we won't provide any evidence to back this claim up bullshit.
Reminds me of how ingrained the presupposed eternal nature of this imperialist hell is into things like statistical analyses of police violence.
For instance, I once had a guy in college (who is now a professional Republican lobbyist) tell me that there was indeed a racial problem behind police violence in the U.S.! The racial disparity between how many white folk and how many black folk were getting killed, he agreed, was appalling. He said, however, that over time that disparity was shrinking, and officer-involved fatalities were reaching "equitable levels between whites and blacks!", so we're actually on the fast track to progress, not regress.
The disparity was shrinking. Not the actual amount of murders.
The wanton and brutal murders committed by police are not the primary issue, they say, the opaquely racial disparity between who is being murdered is.
A game of images. A perfectly logical conclusion to this train of thought is that police should simply murder more white people to prove that racism is over, to make state-sanctioned violence more equitable. Murder, but be inclusive about it!
This is the presentation of the issue by those who acknowledge that there even exists a racial problem. There are plenty who outright deny its existence and still more who celebrate it. Politicians who claim to oppose police violence (especially the phenotypically-motivated kind) will nevertheless be found supporting legislation that further militarizes the police. This is how Amerika does politics... never harm reduction, only harm redistribution - at best.
I recall talking with my friends about Ukraine being a Nazi state in 2020. It was just a fucked up thing all of us knew. I suppose I ought to wash my brain of that vivid memory, lest I become a kremlin apologist ex post facto.
The imperialism of marching your border closer and closer to NATO's troops from 1990 to 2022 is truly the worst kind. Russia must be punished for putting Moscow that close to Ukraine.
couldn't possibly have anything to do with the pro-Russian separatists in the Donbass who were getting slaughtered for years before 2022. those people don't matter, only pro-Ukraine people matter. couldn't possibly have anything to do with security interests. only NATO's security interests matter, not Russia (or China's). couldn't possibly have anything to do with having armed NATO-trained troops in a country that recently experienced a US-backed coup. of course, if Russia puts Wagner forces in African countries (so not even inside NATO's "sphere of influence") that recently experienced a coup, that's an entirely different thing because uhh Russia is bad and NATO is good. that's Russian imperialism. us putting our troops in coup'd countries is freedom and bringing democracy. and also that wasn't a coup, it was actually the citizens doing it all by themselves.
If they didn't, then you'd still have 300,000 bodies to throw at them - not to mention openly breaking treaties isn't a good look internationally - particularly if you're trying to build a counter bloc or at least ensure neutrality
Ukraine shoulda kept those nukes, those are much better at protecting neutrality when you share a border with Russia. Educate yourself about the Budapest memorandum and maybe you'll realize your hypocrisy. Why the sam hell do you think would Russia care about breaking internal law?
Ukraine didn't have the ability to use them, except to take the radioactive material and put them into conventional weapons - which they could do anyway because of their nuclear industry.
Belarus would argue that the US broke their memorandum first with sanctions IIRC, Russia would argue that the 2014 revolution in Ukraine was in part due to US political interference, the US would argue that Russia broke it in Crimea in 2014 and Ukraine in 2022.
If the West didn't organize a coup in Ukraine, put Nazis into power, then prod them into slaughtering their countrymen, then the Russians wouldn't have invaded. The Russians didn't just wake up one day and decide to invade Ukraine.
I'd love to see how you people will react when Mexico joins BRICS and the US invades it.
I'd love to see how you people will react when Mexico joins BRICS and the US invades it.
I cannot fucking wait for China and Russia to do freedom of navigation exercises between Cuba and Florida like how the US does with Taiwan and China and for Americans to just fucking LOSE it. Holy shit, it'll be so funny. "No, this isn't the same because China is evil and we're the good guys!"
Mexico aint joining brics unfortunely. Tho it doesnt stop the US from manufacturing consent to invade on a daily basis with their fentanyl+cartel talking points.
The West's support of Ukraine is getting them all killed anyway. Might as well lay down your arms and have some working-age males to rebuild the country with after surrendering.
They could have made peace near the beginning of the war and they rejected it. Russia offered to hand back Kherson and Zaporozhye oblasts and withdraw in exchange for Ukraine giving up aspirations of NATO and not trying to acquire nuclear missiles, but Ukraine refused. Hardly the rhetoric of a bloodthirsty warlord.
If the west didn't use Ukraine as a proxy there wouldn't have been a war in the first place. It's sad human garbage such as yourself that mad it possible. Now you sit here and bloviate while people die. Fuck you!
If the west wouldn't 'support' Ukraine then they'd still have their democratically elected government and wouldn't be in conflict with Russia in the first place
from how you assign the will of "Ukraine" to the fascist militias that carried out the coup. Not the actual voting population of the country. Those people aren't "Ukraine". Because "Ukraine" rejected what Ukraine voted for. FuNnY thAt.
Did all the Japanese get killed after they surrendered? Did all Germans? If they had surrendered earlier less of them would have died. The same goes for Nazi Ukraine. Their defeat is inevitable, and prolonging the inevitable only adds to the suffering...and to the list of war crimes that they will be charged with by Russia's tribunals afterwards. The West's "support" is literally destroying Ukraine and they have all admitted that they have no problem with this, in fact they profit from it.
The West is happy to "fight to the last Ukrainian" to hurt Russia, the Banderite Nazis are happy to die (and force their less fanatical compatriots to do so as well) for the West so long as it enables their genocidal urges, meanwhile the only ones who actually care about the Ukrainian people and have gone out of their way to try and save them from the Western imperialists and from themselves are the Russians.
It's actually really sad that there isn't a single country on the planet that cares about Ukraine except Russia (and maybe Belarus). To the West they're just a tool, useful idiot cannon fodder, to the rest of the world they're a tragic cautionary tale about what happens when you let the lunatics take over the asylum, which is what happened on the Maidan in 2014. If you really cared about Ukraine you too would want the flow of weapons and money to them to stop, because the longer this goes on the worse it will be for them.
you're so wrong it's hard to know where to even begin. You buy into the premise that the US arming reactionaries and building them up as a force to destabilize and entire region is somehow "protecting" people.
you're so wrong it's hard to know where to even begin
Yeah man looks like you have all that insight from your secret sources that anyone else does not.
Why is the entirety of Europe so dumb and supports Ukraine not getting fucked for literally no valid reason?
Look, there's basically two theories for why no one outside this removed bubble agrees with these shit takes - especially in the region where this is happening.
A) you and the twenty other dudes are just smarter than anyone else that cannot see through what you have apparently uncovered by sitting on your desk and browsing the web
B) the absolute majority of politicians, the military, and the actual people living in the continent have gotten it right
If you think A) is the case then I don't know what else to tell you
Why is the entirety of Europe so dumb and supports Ukraine not getting fucked for literally no valid reason?
Loaded question that presupposes that Europe is actually "supporting" Ukraine and not simply dangling membership in the world's largest protection racket in front of them like a carrot on a stick, in order to get them to fight a pointless and avoidable war to destabilize Russia, while also further privatizing and looting the Ukrainian economy.
So, again, your argument is that you have unique insight that no one else has. Do you even realize that at this point?
Even if what you said was true and by chance you got it right, there's so much in it that makes literally no sense.
simply dangling membership in the world's largest protection racket in front of them like a carrot on a stick
Literally no one was having serious talks about this before the invasion. If that was the end goal all along that could have been so much easier BEFORE the war.
n order to get them to fight a pointless and avoidable war to destabilize Russia
Russia was not stable in any way, share, or form before the war. They weren't even a real democracy.
And, again, even if that were true: Russia started the war. And they can end it at any point in time.
The west doesn't have to destabilize Russia because they are absolutely irrelevant from both a economics and military perspective.
Which is presumably why they started the war.
while also further privatizing and looting the Ukrainian economy
They are being gifted weapons and money. Idk how you could even think this was a net gain.
don't know why you're fixated on this point. Russia isn't a democracy. And? Nobody here is arguing that Russia is a good country or a democracy.
Of course you imagine that the capitalist class dictatorships in the NATO countries are real democracies because they practice multi-party elections between competing capitalist factions, while failing to ever represent working class or marginalized interests except in the most nominal and symbolic ways.
They are being gifted weapons and money. Idk how you could even think this was a net gain.
Ukraine is not being gifted anything. they're expected to pay for all of this "aid," with interest. Down the line this will be used as an excuse to privatize and loot their economy. Oh wait. It already is.
idk dude, maybe you should stop sending wave after wave after wave of leopards and bradleys into minefields if you want to not waste Western resources
the saddest thing is that at the end of this war, there will be hundreds of thousands if not millions of dead Ukrainians, all who died because of Western hatred. but you won't actually care, will you? the lives of the average Ukrainian mean nothing to you. you could send a hundred Ukrainians to die horrifically in the no man's land and if a Russian stubs his toe because of it, you would call it a worthy sacrifice, because causing the Russians inconvenience and suffering is worth much more than saving the lives of innocent people who have been conscripted at gunpoint.
if it wasn't a worthy sacrifice, and you thought this wholesale slaughter should stop, you would support ending the war, like the left does.
Yes, all because of western hatred, fuck all to do with the people who invaded in the first place. They're all imperalist fucks but takes like this on the situation are just completely braindead.
Where have you been for 8 years? 2014-2022
What do you know of the modern "civil conflict" in Ukraine? Do you know what happened in 2014? Are you aware of who began massacring who that year?
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_have_you_been_for_eight_years%3F#:~:text=%22Where%20have%20you%20been%20for,pointing%20out%20to%20what%20Ukraine)
Holy shit, NATOpedia made an article saying "Hey, there might be actual historical context to this situation and Putin didn't wake up on February 24th and decide to murder a bunch of people because he's a very evil bad bad man and King Zelensky shall slay the dragon and then we all live happily ever after." is actually Russian disinformation? Oh my fucking god. These people are unbearable.
It's so fucking funny. I shared it semi-ironically (the Russian bots are inside your walls) but I also want it to serve as an example of liberal anti-communist biases that permeate Wikifedia and hopefully an exercise for our more liberal acquaintances to practice their critical reading skills.
Hey, that time the Ukrainian state killed people? It wasn't TECHNICALLY an attempted genocide, according to our sixth-time revised definition of the term (rev. 2022). We know they TECHNICALLY outlawed the spoken and written language of a major plurality of their people and TECHNICALLY killed 14,000+ of them, but like, it wasn't a genocide. Russia is doing the genocide. Because Putler is ebil.
It's amazing how thin the veneer of understanding is on empire defenders. They cannot even keep their criticisms of international and national policy differentiated, when it comes to attacking anti-imperialists it's always both. No examination of political economy or national histories, just democratic good guys and auforitarian bad guys.
That article is amazing
That's hilarious. What should happen after signing an agreement is that the violence should stop! Gtfo with this things were getting better but we won't provide any evidence to back this claim up bullshit.
Reminds me of how ingrained the presupposed eternal nature of this imperialist hell is into things like statistical analyses of police violence.
For instance, I once had a guy in college (who is now a professional Republican lobbyist) tell me that there was indeed a racial problem behind police violence in the U.S.! The racial disparity between how many white folk and how many black folk were getting killed, he agreed, was appalling. He said, however, that over time that disparity was shrinking, and officer-involved fatalities were reaching "equitable levels between whites and blacks!", so we're actually on the fast track to progress, not regress.
The disparity was shrinking. Not the actual amount of murders.
The wanton and brutal murders committed by police are not the primary issue, they say, the opaquely racial disparity between who is being murdered is.
A game of images. A perfectly logical conclusion to this train of thought is that police should simply murder more white people to prove that racism is over, to make state-sanctioned violence more equitable. Murder, but be inclusive about it!
This is the presentation of the issue by those who acknowledge that there even exists a racial problem. There are plenty who outright deny its existence and still more who celebrate it. Politicians who claim to oppose police violence (especially the phenotypically-motivated kind) will nevertheless be found supporting legislation that further militarizes the police. This is how Amerika does politics... never harm reduction, only harm redistribution - at best.
Wow. I've been asking people that question since February 2022 and I have yet to receive a single Ruble from Mr. Putin.
I recall talking with my friends about Ukraine being a Nazi state in 2020. It was just a fucked up thing all of us knew. I suppose I ought to wash my brain of that vivid memory, lest I become a kremlin apologist ex post facto.
The imperialism of marching your border closer and closer to NATO's troops from 1990 to 2022 is truly the worst kind. Russia must be punished for putting Moscow that close to Ukraine.
couldn't possibly have anything to do with the pro-Russian separatists in the Donbass who were getting slaughtered for years before 2022. those people don't matter, only pro-Ukraine people matter. couldn't possibly have anything to do with security interests. only NATO's security interests matter, not Russia (or China's). couldn't possibly have anything to do with having armed NATO-trained troops in a country that recently experienced a US-backed coup. of course, if Russia puts Wagner forces in African countries (so not even inside NATO's "sphere of influence") that recently experienced a coup, that's an entirely different thing because uhh Russia is bad and NATO is good. that's Russian imperialism. us putting our troops in coup'd countries is freedom and bringing democracy. and also that wasn't a coup, it was actually the citizens doing it all by themselves.
Serious question, would you save 300,000 Ukrainian lives if it meant giving up 100 square kilometres of land to Russia?
Of course not! It's not Ukraine's fault that the Russian Federation invaded and demanded they give up land.
Yikes
That question was a test of your basic empathy and humanity
Let's see those results
Meanwhile "tankies":
(Mao)
Blood and soil lookin ass warhawks.
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Imagine thinking they'd stop at 100 sq km lol
If they didn't, then you'd still have 300,000 bodies to throw at them - not to mention openly breaking treaties isn't a good look internationally - particularly if you're trying to build a counter bloc or at least ensure neutrality
Ukraine shoulda kept those nukes, those are much better at protecting neutrality when you share a border with Russia. Educate yourself about the Budapest memorandum and maybe you'll realize your hypocrisy. Why the sam hell do you think would Russia care about breaking internal law?
RuLeS baSEd oRDeR!
Ukraine didn't have the ability to use them, except to take the radioactive material and put them into conventional weapons - which they could do anyway because of their nuclear industry.
Okay so you think Russia broke the memorandum right?
Yes, of course.
Belarus would argue that the US broke their memorandum first with sanctions IIRC, Russia would argue that the 2014 revolution in Ukraine was in part due to US political interference, the US would argue that Russia broke it in Crimea in 2014 and Ukraine in 2022.
What a shock: you aren't willing to answer that question. I wonder why
That has to be one of the dumbest takes I've ever read on the internet.
If the West wouldn't support Ukraine then the Russians would kill them without resistance, that's about it.
If the West didn't organize a coup in Ukraine, put Nazis into power, then prod them into slaughtering their countrymen, then the Russians wouldn't have invaded. The Russians didn't just wake up one day and decide to invade Ukraine.
I'd love to see how you people will react when Mexico joins BRICS and the US invades it.
I cannot fucking wait for China and Russia to do freedom of navigation exercises between Cuba and Florida like how the US does with Taiwan and China and for Americans to just fucking LOSE it. Holy shit, it'll be so funny. "No, this isn't the same because China is evil and we're the good guys!"
They did it near Alaska and Yankees lost it
Mexico aint joining brics unfortunely. Tho it doesnt stop the US from manufacturing consent to invade on a daily basis with their fentanyl+cartel talking points.
The West's support of Ukraine is getting them all killed anyway. Might as well lay down your arms and have some working-age males to rebuild the country with after surrendering.
They could have made peace near the beginning of the war and they rejected it. Russia offered to hand back Kherson and Zaporozhye oblasts and withdraw in exchange for Ukraine giving up aspirations of NATO and not trying to acquire nuclear missiles, but Ukraine refused. Hardly the rhetoric of a bloodthirsty warlord.
If the west didn't use Ukraine as a proxy there wouldn't have been a war in the first place. It's sad human garbage such as yourself that mad it possible. Now you sit here and bloviate while people die. Fuck you!
If the west wouldn't 'support' Ukraine then they'd still have their democratically elected government and wouldn't be in conflict with Russia in the first place
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If nearly a decade ago Ukraine were allowed to keep it's democratically elected government, they would be under Putin's control?
Why do you feel comfortable jumping in to argue when you don't seem to know what's being talked about in the first place?
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Holy shit what a nauseating
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oh honey you don't have to pretend to be any dumber
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Its such a sad tell that you servile losers simply can't concieve of not "worshipping" something
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Wait for it
also yes I am 10/10
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In what way and to what degree am I defending Russia and against what?
Be specific if you're going to criticize me so I don't spend too much time going back and forth cutting through generalities.
Did all the Japanese get killed after they surrendered? Did all Germans? If they had surrendered earlier less of them would have died. The same goes for Nazi Ukraine. Their defeat is inevitable, and prolonging the inevitable only adds to the suffering...and to the list of war crimes that they will be charged with by Russia's tribunals afterwards. The West's "support" is literally destroying Ukraine and they have all admitted that they have no problem with this, in fact they profit from it.
The West is happy to "fight to the last Ukrainian" to hurt Russia, the Banderite Nazis are happy to die (and force their less fanatical compatriots to do so as well) for the West so long as it enables their genocidal urges, meanwhile the only ones who actually care about the Ukrainian people and have gone out of their way to try and save them from the Western imperialists and from themselves are the Russians.
It's actually really sad that there isn't a single country on the planet that cares about Ukraine except Russia (and maybe Belarus). To the West they're just a tool, useful idiot cannon fodder, to the rest of the world they're a tragic cautionary tale about what happens when you let the lunatics take over the asylum, which is what happened on the Maidan in 2014. If you really cared about Ukraine you too would want the flow of weapons and money to them to stop, because the longer this goes on the worse it will be for them.
Not to mention the arming of a now destabilize country in Europe, could have totally unforeseeable consequences. But that's not Americans problem.
Kill who? Without the west supplying and supporting Ukraine wouldn't even have a functioning military to kill.
you're so wrong it's hard to know where to even begin. You buy into the premise that the US arming reactionaries and building them up as a force to destabilize and entire region is somehow "protecting" people.
Yeah man looks like you have all that insight from your secret sources that anyone else does not.
Why is the entirety of Europe so dumb and supports Ukraine not getting fucked for literally no valid reason?
Look, there's basically two theories for why no one outside this removed bubble agrees with these shit takes - especially in the region where this is happening.
A) you and the twenty other dudes are just smarter than anyone else that cannot see through what you have apparently uncovered by sitting on your desk and browsing the web B) the absolute majority of politicians, the military, and the actual people living in the continent have gotten it right
If you think A) is the case then I don't know what else to tell you
Loaded question that presupposes that Europe is actually "supporting" Ukraine and not simply dangling membership in the world's largest protection racket in front of them like a carrot on a stick, in order to get them to fight a pointless and avoidable war to destabilize Russia, while also further privatizing and looting the Ukrainian economy.
So, again, your argument is that you have unique insight that no one else has. Do you even realize that at this point?
Even if what you said was true and by chance you got it right, there's so much in it that makes literally no sense.
Literally no one was having serious talks about this before the invasion. If that was the end goal all along that could have been so much easier BEFORE the war.
Russia was not stable in any way, share, or form before the war. They weren't even a real democracy.
And, again, even if that were true: Russia started the war. And they can end it at any point in time.
The west doesn't have to destabilize Russia because they are absolutely irrelevant from both a economics and military perspective.
Which is presumably why they started the war.
They are being gifted weapons and money. Idk how you could even think this was a net gain.
yeah, we know.
don't know why you're fixated on this point. Russia isn't a democracy. And? Nobody here is arguing that Russia is a good country or a democracy.
Of course you imagine that the capitalist class dictatorships in the NATO countries are real democracies because they practice multi-party elections between competing capitalist factions, while failing to ever represent working class or marginalized interests except in the most nominal and symbolic ways.
Ukraine is not being gifted anything. they're expected to pay for all of this "aid," with interest. Down the line this will be used as an excuse to privatize and loot their economy. Oh wait. It already is.