I still flip flop between ML and anarchism to be honest. I'm ML because of climate change time constraints but anarchist in heart.
Really what I care about is improving things. And I will use whatever toolbox seems to be the best option under the conditions in order to achieve that.
I think third worldism is about to be ripped apart by climate change. We're going to see a very very rapid destabilisation occur from climate refugee movements numbering in the tens of millions. It took just thousands of Syrian refugees to provoke huge EU destabilisation that led to Brexit, Greece, Italy, far right movements, etc etc... What's going to happen when the numbers are in the millions is going to blow it out of the water.
This rapid destabilisation is going to create a lot of revolutionary events.
Won't that just accelerate fascism though? Though I guess you could apply the same argument to the third world as well, in terms of anti colonial nationalism that doesn't go anywhere.
Yes. But everything that creates revolutionary conditions also accelerates fascism. It will win in some places, but I'm also quite sure that it will lose in others. We can not change the fact that these conditions are coming so we can only figure out what we're going to do within them.
My belief is that we should be preparing for this situation so that we can act when it comes.
Yeah I would love for it to be possible for us to simply build our new world and show people a better way, but we are running out of time and more authoritarian measures are going to be necessary.
"more authoritarian measures are going to be necessary."
Welp, that's the gotcha for calling you 'tankie' according to these people.
Use state measures, and they would treat you as oriental orc with no sense... get crushed by authoritarians and they will publicly worship you while secretly celebrating a progressive defeat towards reaction...
it all depends on whether by "authoritarian" the liberals mean "classes, hierarchies, oppression, bigotry and exploitation" or if they simply mean "using violence to bring an end to classes, hierarchies, oppression, bigotry and exploitation." I find that they tend to mean the latter. Hence, I leave it to Engels:
It's a joke, because I initially thought it wouldn't allow me, due to a large waiting time. I eventually made an account of a similar name there later on...
We definitely need several conditions to change in the UK before anything revolutionary occurs I'm with you there. Some things are economic and some others could be pushed via some electoral policies, although I don't see a pathway to electoral policies with Starmer and the purge he pulled. A lot of union sentiment has improved, but translating into new union members? I'm not seeing it happen fast enough. Another issue is the misogyny and bigotry that currently exists among MLs in the UK, created by the bizarre attempt at allying themselves with terfs and appealing to the man down the pub. This has been created by tories posing as the bloke down the pub to appeal to reactionaries, and somehow MLs have bought it as the depiction of the average working class person of the UK which is just plain nonsense, they're trying to appeal to a caricature created by the bourgeoisie. Undoing this false mindset is very important to get MLs focused on the actually-vulnerable people, problem is that leadership in these parties is pushing it and there isn't any way to dislodge that leadership without massive entryism from lgbt people who have already almost all left those parties.
I view our struggle currently as less an adventurist revolutionary fantasy on the horizon like I think a lot of newer ML fall into
I don't think there is any problem with having a laser-focus on achieving revolution. It should be the question that guides all work we do, how our work contributes to future revolution, what prerequisites must be met, etc etc. While it's not available as an option right now we should be identifying prerequisites needed for it and working to achieve them.
I still flip flop between ML and anarchism to be honest. I'm ML because of climate change time constraints but anarchist in heart.
Really what I care about is improving things. And I will use whatever toolbox seems to be the best option under the conditions in order to achieve that.
the centrist leftist take
Am I an ML? An anarchist? Who cares, I just wanna grill (the rich)
you've just birthed a new tagline
@CARCOSA@hexbear.net
You joke but I genuinely feel like this most days. If anything is getting done we're gonna need to team up anyways.
A friend of mine always says "I'm an ML now so I can be an anarchist one day in the future"
that's a good one
I have been converted to third worldism by all the contradictions. Something global historical materialism something super exploitation.
I think third worldism is about to be ripped apart by climate change. We're going to see a very very rapid destabilisation occur from climate refugee movements numbering in the tens of millions. It took just thousands of Syrian refugees to provoke huge EU destabilisation that led to Brexit, Greece, Italy, far right movements, etc etc... What's going to happen when the numbers are in the millions is going to blow it out of the water.
This rapid destabilisation is going to create a lot of revolutionary events.
Won't that just accelerate fascism though? Though I guess you could apply the same argument to the third world as well, in terms of anti colonial nationalism that doesn't go anywhere.
Yes. But everything that creates revolutionary conditions also accelerates fascism. It will win in some places, but I'm also quite sure that it will lose in others. We can not change the fact that these conditions are coming so we can only figure out what we're going to do within them.
My belief is that we should be preparing for this situation so that we can act when it comes.
I agree with you there 100%. We need to prepare now
Yeah I would love for it to be possible for us to simply build our new world and show people a better way, but we are running out of time and more authoritarian measures are going to be necessary.
"more authoritarian measures are going to be necessary."
Welp, that's the gotcha for calling you 'tankie' according to these people.
Use state measures, and they would treat you as oriental orc with no sense... get crushed by authoritarians and they will publicly worship you while secretly celebrating a progressive defeat towards reaction...
Edit: I'm pro-Nakoichi, just to clarify...
it all depends on whether by "authoritarian" the liberals mean "classes, hierarchies, oppression, bigotry and exploitation" or if they simply mean "using violence to bring an end to classes, hierarchies, oppression, bigotry and exploitation." I find that they tend to mean the latter. Hence, I leave it to Engels:
and also, oddly enough, Mark Twain:
Where did he write this?
Engels? An essay titled "On Authority". Mark Twain? A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court.
Yeah, I was asking for Mark Twain. Thank you
no more half measures walter
Wait why won't lemmygrad allow you?
It's a joke, because I initially thought it wouldn't allow me, due to a large waiting time. I eventually made an account of a similar name there later on...
deleted by creator
We definitely need several conditions to change in the UK before anything revolutionary occurs I'm with you there. Some things are economic and some others could be pushed via some electoral policies, although I don't see a pathway to electoral policies with Starmer and the purge he pulled. A lot of union sentiment has improved, but translating into new union members? I'm not seeing it happen fast enough. Another issue is the misogyny and bigotry that currently exists among MLs in the UK, created by the bizarre attempt at allying themselves with terfs and appealing to the man down the pub. This has been created by tories posing as the bloke down the pub to appeal to reactionaries, and somehow MLs have bought it as the depiction of the average working class person of the UK which is just plain nonsense, they're trying to appeal to a caricature created by the bourgeoisie. Undoing this false mindset is very important to get MLs focused on the actually-vulnerable people, problem is that leadership in these parties is pushing it and there isn't any way to dislodge that leadership without massive entryism from lgbt people who have already almost all left those parties.
I don't think there is any problem with having a laser-focus on achieving revolution. It should be the question that guides all work we do, how our work contributes to future revolution, what prerequisites must be met, etc etc. While it's not available as an option right now we should be identifying prerequisites needed for it and working to achieve them.
deleted by creator
Marxism-Leninism is a really good politics for being right about everything. Being right about everything is no fun when you're losing.